get an 02 or an 03??

[Ol'TrailDog]

3rd Gen advantages:

... 3500 SRW... :-laf :-laf :-laf

I've had both and each has it's advantageous, which pretty much have been covered above.

Cons: 02: vp$$ injection pump; poor steering; flimsy frame (see last issue TDR;

03: injectors less reliable; be sure to test ride for vibration; no under hood light; 17" tires



Pros: 02; few injector issues; thicker sheet metal (seems anyway)

03; tougher built engine; better reliabillity (see last issue TDR); has the 305/555; no cat; no 04. 5+ EPA funkiness; stiff hydroframe; larger brakes; four doors; much smoother ride; no vp$$; vastly better steering ratio; better steering linkage.



Body style is a matter of personal preference.



However, if you are buying a truck based primarily on the noise level, I don't know if reason will be of assistance. :-laf

 

[The Inventor]

The 03 is better: Some have touched on the suspension but has onyone mentioned Rack and Pinion steering. The 03 also has a light weight front suspension with magnesium alloy upper control arms.



Jim

03 HO 6spd 4dr ... .

 

[jjdiesel]

Rack and Pinion only on 2wd models... but still, vastly superior steering over any 2nd gen.

 

[rbattelle]

With regard to the engine...

Here's my take on it, for whatever it's worth.



Klenger - don't be so quick to point out no lift pump problems on the 3rd gens. There've been quite a few around here with failed lift pumps, some of which took out the injector pump.



On the one hand, the CP-3 is a very simple pump. It only has to pressurize the rail, so there's no need to "time" the pump like on a VP-44 or P7100. That should make pump replacement easier. On the other hand, it's a very very close-tolerance pump with very high pressures which makes it ultra-sensitive to contaminants in the fuel. Not to mention the problems with containing fuel at 1600 bar safely.



The injectors in the common rail engine are still "up in the air" as far as I'm concerned. There's a lot of trucks with failed injectors. At their core, they're a very simple design. But like the CP-3 they're very high-precision and contain a very small check ball that seems to be somewhat troublesome (injector stick-open issues).



In my opinion, the fuel system is the "weak link" in the common rail engine. There are too many precision parts, and rather high pressures at work. The remainder of the engine is excellent, with a significantly stiffer block, better piston cooling, and more electronic controls (I think electronics are preferrable - like distributorless ignition systems).



You mention that you're going to bomb the truck. It *appears* that bombed 3rd gen engines have notably shortened lifespans, so if bombing and long life are what you desire you might choose an older engine. 12v guys seem to be able to bomb the you-know-what out of their engines with little or no bad consequences.



I should note that I never owned a 12v or a VP-44 truck.



-Ryan

Disclaimer: I am not being mean spirited or rude in any way to anyone who owns any truck or vehicle. I am not bad mouthing any person or group of people. The information in this post is pure opinion, and I make no claims to it's basis in fact or reality. I encourage everyone to conduct their own research and reach their own conclusions.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Prefer AAM axels over Danas in my book. Have read that 58re/68re are in test mules now. (5 and 6 speed autos)Who knows when that may happen. I jumped from a 93 1st generation to a 03 because I never wanted or liked a lot of things about 2nd generation trucks.

Why on earth would you prefer a AAM over dana 80"s And 70"s????????

Is it that you like worn axle u-joints at 17k? Or Maybe ball joints wornout at 20K? oR MAYBE THE 70 -80 mph DRONE oR iT must be the limited slip rear that doesn't work (atleast not in my truck). Allthough there are improvements in the 3G's IE brakes ,steering, noise, at 33k miles it has more problems than my 95 did with 240k. Gee I wish I had her back!

 

[rbattelle]

Is it that you like worn axle u-joints at 17k? Or Maybe ball joints wornout at 20K?

Why are u-joints and ball joints an axle problem? I see these as poorly designed parts, quite apart from the axle itself.



-Ryan

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Why are u-joints and ball joints an axle problem? I see these as poorly designed parts, quite apart from the axle itself.



-Ryan

Why? because there part of the whole unit, just like the vendor that made the ball joints on the dana 70 front, only they didn't wear out like the AAM crap!

 

[rbattelle]

Hmm... I didn't know the AAM axle comes fully assembled. I suppose u-joints make sense, but I never would've thought the ball joints came with them.



-Ryan

 

[DPKetchum]

My liminted slip works fine. It always spins both rears. U/joints/ball joints are a vendor problem. One buddy of mine has had 3 fuel filters in 90k. Once I had the updated powersteering hose no drone at all. I've had two tsb's done and no other warranty claims. One friend with 90k on his and only a lumbar support replaced and the p/steering hose tsb. Another friend that traded his with 144k and only the hose tsb/alt bracket. No brakes replaced,no alignments,one set of tires and wiper blades etc. and best of all EVERY FORD DIESEL I come across the driver is ALWAYS LOOKING at mine!

 

[hammersley]

"the stronger frame" is highly questionable as you can not put a flatbed on 3rd gen 3500 but you can on a 2nd generation! No BS - just facts!



AND the other huge problem with the HPCR system is the huge increase in fuel pressure - that is causing problems due to fuel contamination..... see my post about that... ...

 

[Nyoest]

My . 02 worth, you allready know what's gonna break on the 2nd gen. (VP44, LP) Plenty of them running with big numbers on the clock. What's gonna be the achilles (?) heel of the 3rd gen?

 

[DPKetchum]

I see 3rd generations with Western Hauler beds.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

"the stronger frame" is highly questionable as you can not put a flatbed on 3rd gen 3500 but you can on a 2nd generation! No BS - just facts!

Gee... seems to work fine for me and others. There are TSB "rules" about drilling, welding, and cutting. But as long as you play by the rules everything is fine. Just BSing about the facts. :-laf



Hammer, that is quite the thread on filtration you started, plus Ryan's thread and herculian task. Important links and info. Seems like a aftermarket 2u filter is a must do. However, for the average Joe,or dog, the FASS, AirDog, or one of the other models Ryan mentioned would be the ticket. Since your link article points out the Big Dogs are running high pressure fuel systems the fix is not to revert to obsolete low pressure system but to address the real problem - 2u filtration.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Hmm... I didn't know the AAM axle comes fully assembled. I suppose u-joints make sense, but I never would've thought the ball joints came with them.



-Ryan

95 240k tight ball joints,03 since18k loose ball joints, nough said!

 

[DieselMinded]

1. you started this thread in the 3rd gen forum... . what kind of response did you think you was going to get ????

2. REAL TRUCKS RATTLE

3. What NYoest said

4. last I checked I had 4 doors

5. weather striping will always be under par on a 3rd gen

6. 2nd gen Fuel system is not good to say the least

7. 3rd gens have more interior room,... ... better ,easier upgrades,,,real tow hooks not sure on everything else





I would say get the '03 its newer ... when in doubt always use reason.



DM

 

[Wiredawg]

I own both and Like Both

It all depends on what you want in terms of features and looks. I like both for the differences. My noisey 02; My wife's quiet(er) 03. If you want to haul more than 2 people, get the 03 for sure.



I have 63K miles on my 02 and lost a VP44 at 38K miles, replaced under warranty. No other problems.



My wifes' 03 has 42K on the clock and is trouble-free so far.



To me it comes down to looks and passengers... both 2d and 3d gen are great trucks,



Let us know what you decide.



Wiredawg