Get what you deserve

[ACF]

I am writing this for all the guys (and gals) out there that have 3rd Gen trucks with the dreaded 70+ mph driveline vibration. I have been reading about it for months now on this site and I myself fell victim to it. I will not go into great detail on the issue has it has been beat to death on this site..... i just don't want to see any more people pay big $ for a new rig and then get the run around from their dealer or D. C. Some background-



I bought a new 2004 QC SB 2500 4x4 with the 48RE/555 Cummins last March. When I bought it I had no idea about the vibration issue and did not drive it over 45 MPH during the test drive. It was another couple of weeks after I bought it and hit the interstate before I felt it and knew something was not right. I went through over 5 months of dealer hell (the service manager actually told me the speed limit was 70mph and I should not exceed it) before talking to a D. C. rep. Once I did that he agreed with me and said that at this time there is no fix for the truck so they agreed to buy it back or replace it. Little did I know that they were going through new management in the district and would neglect to call me for another 2+ months to let me know what was going on. Finally I got the call and go ahead (after dozens of voice mails and bugging the dealer on a weekly basis). I just ordered a 2005 QC,SWB, 4x4, 48RE loaded. I made sure that I had no obligaton to buy the truck once it came in... ... just in case it has the same issue. In that case they will still buy the "old" truck back that I am still driving. Bottom line..... don't take no for an answer... . you paid big $'s for a product and the vibration issue is just not acceptabe. Get what you deserve.

 

[Gunnernmybike]

Good job! It's nice to see that people are not settling for what the dealer says if you know they're wrong. I agree that when we are spending our hard earned money on these trucks, they should be up to our standards.

 

[DPKetchum]

Not to disagree or start a flame war but I want to mention something. These 4x4 autos/trucks etc. are not as smooth as two wheel drive anything,Trucks in general for several decades and many differant manufactures have had vibration/drone issue. 4x4 suvs are also prone to this. The vibration issues TODAY are much less then the previous decades. The complaints are probaby more prevaliant now then in the past. People buy these diesel 4x4 and drive over 70 all the time. Use to be they were towing something and driven/towing at more sane speeds. The vibrations are obvisouly a tough nut to crack/repair. I've deldt with them(some with NO success)with G. M. Nissan/Toyota/Ford. Lost a friendship over one that I even warned/told him about beore purchase and he bought anyway and came unglued that I could not repair or swap any more parts from truck to truck for many months.

 

[ACF]

DPKetchum... I know what you are taking about and fully agree. But the issue with these trucks is beyond that... . way beyond. When you cant see out of your rear view mirror (some cases not mine) that is unacceptable. Mine was just plain annoying as you could feel the drone go through the entire frame at any speed over 70. They could have avoided the problem with a set of hubs (most folks don't run over 70 with the hubs locked in and would never know)... ... . but if you choose not to have hubs and sell a truck with such heavy from end components that are always turning you better make sure everything is well balanced&true. Like I said I am not going into too much detail as it has been said over and over again on this site. I just feel people should get what they pay for and my purpose of writing this was to let people know they do have options and are not at the dealers mercy if they have a legitimate problem with a new truck under warranty.

 

[BNH4221]

Hey ACF,

Thanks for the info. I am going thru the process right now as I have the vibe. Long story short, dealer tried twice to adjust the pinion angle by screwing the caster all the way forward. Didn't work and now the dealer says:

"They all do it". I respectfully disagree.

Dealer promised DC zone rep would call me last Tuesday. No call.



Well, didn't I go onto Dodge.com and fire off a message to their customer service. Not a nasty-gram, just a request they assist me in fixing the problem.

Got a VERY angry call from the service manager of the dealership today claiming that I have affected his 5 star rating with a "Black mark", claiming that they said they would have the rep call me next month not last week etc. He basically blamed me for everything but the fall of western civilization. We went back and forth for about 15 minutes when he told me that he wasn't going to touch my truck until next month when the DC rep looks at it. After being advised that this is not acceptable, and that I would have no problem sending another message to DC, he agreed to get DC rep to call me sooner and get it resolved.



So, if you want results and want to rattle a cage, give DC a blast thru the website. Got results for me.



DP Ketchum, politely disagree with you. I had a 98 12v that had rattles and vibes galore. But they were a part of the truck. This 70 MPH vibe is most assuredly a design flaw. How else to explain that it stops with the removal of the front drive shaft?

Especially in a truck that is a tight as this one, it is very noticeable and extremely unacceptable.

It's a great machine with a serious flaw. For $40k, I want it right.



Steve

 

[Fyrmen]

So, I ordered a 2005 and will take delivery of it next week. Is this something I have to look forward to or is this an 04 problem? I have not had any problems with my 98. 5 with this.

 

[MichaelWright]

Fyrmen,



Take your new truck out on the eway and run her up to about 80. If you have the drone/vibe, you will know it. I used to have it, right around 68-72 mph, but that was taken care of long ago. Once I leveled the truck, replaced the shocks, exhaust and intake, there was no more drone or vibrations after that. It was a little irritating, but I drive a semi for a living, so it was not that big a deal to me at the time.



Mike

 

[hammersley]

I must be lucky with my 01

because mine is as solid as can be and at double the limit and still wanting more she is as solid as can be..... no vibration that I can tell... .

 

[DPKetchum]

I know its annoying and unacceptable in todays world. Just stating that TRUCKS in general and some autos(even more now with the 4x4 suvs)have had vibration and harmonics for decades. Some were repairable and some wern't. What fixed one did not always affect the next. Like I said I lost a friendship over one that I warned him that most if not all did a vibration at a certain speed/rpm and had for two model years. That if his did it was "oh well". Never mind that he traded him at dead/dying early 2. 8 v6 Chevy truck and bought a nissan L/B K/C that held up 100 times better then the Chevy by his own admission. But it had a harmonic vibration at 65/70 mph that some complained about and others did'nt. Before he bought I even mentioned that IF he was going to be a issue go buy a Toyota much to the salesmans dismay. He took up lots of my time/factory rep etc,over the next YEAR. I finally told him in a harsh tone NOT to bring it back in our shop and or if he did not to complain about THE vibration again. The DEALER guys are NOT the ones who designed the product. The powersteering hose drone bugged the heck out of me yet MY two GOOD friends hardly even gave it a second thought. Both said they thought it was just normal diesel stuff unti I convinced them to get the TSB done. Both called me as they left the dealer lot and said well GEE WHIZ it sure is smooth I never would have thought.

 

[sarj]

Lots of research clued me into this before I took delivery of my truck. I'll repeat the best piece of advice I read. When you go to take delivery, tell them you're going for a drive. They picked me up at the airport, walked me around the truck, and thought that was it. I told 'em I going for a drive, I'll be back in 20 or so minutes. He did a quick double-take, and said "sure... take your time". If he has a problem with it, then tell him what your going to do & to come along. Take it to a park or a lot and look it over good. Check the body, the roof, everything visual. Get it up to 75+ and find out what it feels like. Then when your satisfied, make the deal... NOT afterward. Once you sign and hand them the check, you'll be working backwards, and it's a lot harder. So far, it's a great truck.



sarj

 

[klenger]

I guess I was pretty lucky. I had already sold my old truck, ordered a new one in Denver (I live in Tucson), waited 6 weeks for it to come i, flew to Denver to pick it up, and signed the papers w/o even starting the engine. I figured I was already committed, so whatever problems it had, I would work out under warranty. So far, no problems what-so-ever.

 

[claymike]

Guess I was lucky also, I had the vib took it into my dealer 3 hours later they said the truck was ready. They installed a new front driveline and all has been well since.

 

[Tomeygun]

I just drove a customers truck home and back (an ordered truck for a TDR member) because he was worried about the vibration...



I am happy to say all of the 05's I have tested to 80 mph have been straight and smooth! --- FWIW

 

[Sled Dog]

I just drove a customers truck home and back (an ordered truck for a TDR member) because he was worried about the vibration...



I am happy to say all of the 05's I have tested to 80 mph have been straight and smooth! --- FWIW

That's good, because that's what you'll be doing with me, when my 05 arrives.

 

[demodogg]

Last week I test drove a 05 3500 4x4 QC SB with 48re. Cruised around at 70-75--no vibes. Love my current truck but can't wait till I'm able to order a new one

 

[dmurdock]

I am currently working throught this with a different dealer than where I purchased the truck. They are working with me (Maxwell Dodge in Austin). Needless to say, if I happen to buy another dodge it will be from them. Currently they have added a bracket to drop the pinion angle in the rear (no help) and replaced the entire rear driveline (from tcase to rearend) and that took about 70% of the vibe away. Haven't talked to them since but the next part to go most likely will be a front driveshaft.



And, to those who say all trucks vibrate, this is my 3rd dodge cummins 3500 4x4 and the FIRST to have this vibration. The 98 and the 01 were not smooth, but they did NOT vibrate like the driveshaft was getting ready to come through the floorboard.

 

[jsimpson]

Ketchum, most of these guys did not trade Honda Accords for 4x4 Cummins pickups, but previously owned earlier trucks with the same configuration. Dismissing their complaints as part of the 4x4 territory is uncalled for. Drivetheir trucks and THEN make your diagnosis.

 

["Mad Max"]

old-school observation

This is a good topic, and one we all should be aware of. I want to share some experience of mine as an interesting sidebar. By the way, Hiya DPK!



I built, pretty much from scratch, a 74 crew cab 4x4 dually. It started life as a 2x4 srw truck that I found in a junk yard. Well, LONG story short, I rebuilt everything and personally installed everything from the front bumper to the rear bumper. Converted the rig to 4x4 suspension, got the dually axles, and everything more or less came from the local junkyards. So yeah, it was a beater rig, but it was HUGE - like 21. 5 feet bow to stern. I knew it'd need a football field to turn around, but it was built to be my tugboat. The difference was though, it was built slow and steady, and every single part, specifically the driveline, was done with lots of questions and research regarding the ever-nagging 'angle of the dangle', or also known as the driveline angles.

We all know u-joints have a fine line between just right (no vibe) and just wrong (vibe). Not enough to kill the truck, but enough for a minded driver to notice and definitely enough to drive you to beating fenders because the thing just isn't perfect - like it's supposed to be.

Well, the shop that did my driveshafts is, well, awesome. They speak angles and measured my truck with expensive tools and really knew their stuff. When I first drove the rig (it had a divorced np205, btw), there was a vibration that came and went, mostly above 55 mph. Okay, I knew it'd have some teething problems and I was preparred to work them. Turns out, my transfer case, that I bolted in myself, was 'level' with the frame, and not in line with the engine/transmission. As a result, I had a vibration on the output side of the t-case. I discovered the root cause after repositioning the t-case to be in-line with the trans, and since that day, my big honkin 7500 lb 4-door dually gigantor pick'emup truck rode... . like a dddrreeaammm. I could do 90 and it just hummed right along at a nice 3700 rpm (it was a big block 413/727 combo). Truck was awesome, but I knew it was only because of the personal 'touoch' that it drove that way.

Now, what's to say that in the factory line process that personal touch isn't there and maybe that's why the vibration. The numbers of trucks being pumped out is staggering, and speed matters, so maybe, MAYBE, there's a wrench in the proverbial specifications for the front driveline.

Another sidebar, is my new 05 Hemi Magnum R/T: It seems to drift to the right. My 71 Demon GTS-R (that I also built from scratch, by hand), on the same roads, doesn't. I thought I was just being picky, but alas, a month or so after I started complaining about the drift... a factory TSB comes out about, yup, a report that new Magnums may drift to the right, and there's a bolt kit (waiting for me ) suggested as a fix. I figure a $33,000 car aught to be perfect, and save for the drift, it is. But I also know it's a brand new model, with brand new specs, and brand new issues. So I come to expect that. Though it's not nearly as heavy or rugged as a new Ram, it is still new, and mass produced.

You do get what you pay for, and for me that came with certain assumptions. I'm sure the Ram 70 mph vibe is fixable, but nowadays, that's in the 'voodoo' realm, and the dealers don't do voodoo well - it's really not their problem. Think about it - unless the factory calls for a fix, the dealer doesn't have anything to base 'voodoo' fixes on except that a customer is unhappy and mad. The factory engineers design the stuff, DC funds it, and the dealers sell 'em, and yes fix 'em too, but it's very tough for me to have the dealer spend voodoo time on my Magnum when the car is within the specs set by DC. So, luckily the service manager at my delear likes it when I crank the 440 in my Demon up to 6200 rpm, do raging burnouts in his parking lot, and he and the rest of the team there work with me very well, and I know we'll work the Magnum's drift to be perfect, but it takes time and lots of patience. Finding a good service manager who'll work in the voodoo world is tough, but for me I told him to 'use my Magnum as the guinnea pig' to work the teething issues. As well, my Magnum is the first customer-ordered R/T in Colorado Springs, so I figure use it to baseline the completely new, and untested, service procedures. Heck, it's all warranteed so I have no problem tweaking the car, and so, that's my thoughts about it.

Bottom line - if something that -I- build isn't perfect, I am totally fine with that and I have all the time to work it. I like working voodoo. Something new like the Magnum though, I expect it to be perfect, but I know it didn't get the personal touch, so as things come up, I just take it in and state the issue, ask them to work it, and luckily they have not charged me with the 'voodoo' yet, especially with the TSB coming out about it. However, after the fix is done... I won't have much more to assume they'll do for me. ... that Magnum does haul butt tho!! :-laf

- Sam

 

[BNH4221]

They installed a new front driveline and all has been well since.

Claymike,



When you say they installed a new driveline what exactly do you mean? I am currently locked in battle with not only the dealership but DC as well. I'd love to have a suggestion for the dealership/zone rep to try.



Can't get no satisfaction.....



I am a VERY unhappy DC customer right now. #@$%!



Steve

 

[kblranch]

My 2004 had the 72 mph and up rear view mirror blurring vibration they rebalanced all the tires and replaced the front driveline and all is well.