Getrag 360 Issuse

[edward.tabor]

I need to vent, and cry at the same time!!! I have a 1993 W 250 Cummins with 170,000 on the clock. At 129,000 miles, the transmission started whining in 5th, had it rebuilt. At that time, the rebuild was very poor, transmission leaked everywhere and it was not easy to shift. At 170,000 miles, about the middle of July, it locked up, tight, at 65 mph. Had it pulled, my new rebuilder (highly recommended) said that it was not rebuildable, due to a cracked casing and melted internals. He found a rebuilt transmission in Portland, OR, from a rebuilder he has dealt with MANY times, with success, for 1600. 00 plus shipping (200) and core (400). I got it, had my mechanic install it (along with other work on the truck. ) We both filled it with Mobil 1 5w 30 synthetic, and filled the transfer case (which I had rebuilt as well) with 75-90 synthetic gear oil. My mechanic backed tyhe truck out of the garage and, within 30 feet, the new transmission locked up. I took this in stride, because I am an experienced engine rebuilder, and know that everything, no matter how careful you are, doesn't always work out. I called my rebuilder (transmission did have a 1 year unlimited footage warranty and, long tale short, exchanged it for a second rebuilt unit from Portland. Portland ate the shipping, I ate the labor, and we put the new transmission in. I took the truck out this time and 1-4 are just fine. Reverse is a little stiff to find, but the kicker is, it jumps out of 5th, under hard acceleration (like it did not go all the way in gear. So, I am STILL OUT MY TRUCK, WAITING FOR A CALL BACK, AND VERY UNHAPPY



Any ideas?



Ed #@$%!

 

[cyborg]

Check runout.



Is the bellhousing centering the trans to the pilot shaft.

 

[edward.tabor]

It appears to b e centered. Other than the "eyeball test" how would one check?

All the mounting bolts went in easily, without fight.



Ed

 

[bgilbert]

Ed, I know this won't help, but being a member since May 01, you didn't know about a brand NEW NV4500 kit from Quad4x4 was only $2999? And a rebuild NV4500 kit from Standard is ~$2100. $2200 for another turd, not good.

Reverse is a little stiff to find, but the kicker is, it jumps out of 5th, under hard acceleration (like it did not go all the way in gear.

This is what we get from rebuilt getrags unfortunately. transmission shops make their money from the uniformed masses (non-TDR members) on getrags. Can't help, 5th and reverse share the same shift fork I think, might pull the transmission, or cut a hole in the cab floor to remove the top cover of transmission and inspect the shift forks and see if you can find your problem.

 

[1stgen4evr]

Getrag

"This is what we get from rebuilt getrags unfortunately. " Correct often but NOT always.



If you have the ability to change the transmission, you could do the work yourself and then you would know what is going on. Reverse and fifth do share the same rail fork etc. transmission shops do make their money from uninformed (sometimes TDR members) owners.



One of the mistakes that is made at rebuild shops is that sometimes a different shift tower (cap) is used on a transmission. There are minor differences in the wear points between trannys. The detents will therefore not be holding the gears in their original memory position. It is a very minor difference but can cause the gear to exert a pressure such that the mesh will jump out. I NEVER swap caps and interchange parts unless I am doing complete replacment of mesh related parts.



The way to get a satisfactory rebuild is first of all to do it yourself with a transmission you know the history on. Replace the parts that are defective and if the transmission has been run much at all with it jumping, be sure that the detents on the appropriate shift rail are good. Taking the rails out and getting them back together is a chore that the lazy shop tech will not attend to and is often neglected.



You simply can not blame all the problems on the shop tech however as he only know what he sees unaided with magnification. If he knows exactly what the transmission is doing wrong, and is building YOUR transmission to go back in YOUR truck, and you inform him of what it was doing, he can address those issues and you CAN get a satisfactory rebuild.



I have 430k miles on a getrag with reshim three times and pocket bearing replacment once. The reshim work was done when the clutch was out to repair the pilot bearing. A second time when the throwout was replaced, third time when a syncro ring was replaced. The total cost of all that has been done on the transmission is less than half the cost of a 4500. If the getrag is maintained, it will outlast the truck.



For your situation, you already have a mish mash of parts from who knows where and may not ever get a satisfactory transmission for your truck without going the mod route. I have been in a 4500 and I am not impressed. I would make the jump to the 5600 if I were going to do the conversion.



James

 

[edward.tabor]

Well, to begin with, I was going to go the NV 4500 conversion route. However, after weighing the pro's and con's, at the time, I thought, for sure, that my money would have been better spent on just getting the Getrag rebuilt, since the truck is 11 years old and I plan on keeping it only 5 or 6 more years. I never envisioned having 2 bad rebuilds in a row.

As for doing the work myself, I'd have to be doing it lying on my back. I do not have a good transmission jack and that transmission is one heavy sob. I already have some back problems, do not need to compound them. However, I do "have a clue" I am not uninformed, I just havew no experience rebuilding transmissions. I can, and do rebuild engines, and I am a decent mechanic, even if I do not do the heavy, grunt jobs anymore.

My rebuilder is actually trying to help, I drove over to his shop today and we sat down and discussed our options.

Yes, the transmission will need to come out.

He has called the trans shop in Portland, they are, reluctantly, willing to pay up to 380. 00 in labor costs and supply the parts that Paul needs to make it right. I am still not overly happy with the arrangement, so Paul is looking for a shop that "owes him one" for a reduced R/R labor fee. I'll know more tomorrow.



Yes, at this point it would have been better to go the NV route. But, hindsite is ALWAYS 20/20.



Ed

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

The rebuilder wasn't by chance Transmission Exchange was it?



Bob

 

[edward.tabor]

I do not believe so. I'll get the name and let you know.



Ed

 

[edward.tabor]

Here is Where the Trans Came From

http://www.alltransmission.com/



These are the boys that supplied 2 bad trannys.



Ed

 

[edward.tabor]

An update. Paul, the rebuilder from transworks, took trhis transmission apart. 5th gear, the part that meshes in with the other splines to engage it, was worn down to tiny nubbins (or made poorly). The syncro was made too small. The shift fork did not "look right. "



He rebuilt it, at his expense, using new parts, putr it together. I have the truck now and it drives and shifts GRADE A. Will pull top PTO bolt and be certain transmission is overfilled, and run the **** out of it this weekend.



Ed Oo. Oo.

 

[1stgen4evr]

"drives and shifts GRADE A"



Congratulations Ed to you and your tech, that is how to get her done. There are a few shops that can test load the transmission before installation to avoid the problem you had. Even this is not "bullet proof".



To anyone considering a rebuild. Have YOUR transmission repaired, not exchange and be sure the tech knows what all it was doing wrong. As these trucks get more and more miles, they will have worn parts that will be overlooked in a quickie rebuild. You can not take a pile of parts from multiple trannys that have 2 3 or 4 hundred thousand miles and throw them in a case and get good results every time. You can maintain one to get VERY high miles.



1stgen4evr

James

 

[edward.tabor]

I drove the truck several hundred miles today. 2 issues came up. First, the transmission bacame progressively noisier in Neutral, sounds similar to the transmission of a big rig when the clutch is first pushed in, however in my case the noise is gone when the clutch is in, is present when the clutch is out.



Second, it walked out of 5th twice on me today. Mainly happened under deceleration, at interstate highway speeds.



OInly 2 issue I have, am going to Paul in the morning to get them documented, just in case.



Ed

 

[edward.tabor]

Updates on GetRag 360

Paul has documented the transmission issues and has requested the builder supply another transmission, at no cost to me.

Now he just needs to find an installer, because I refuse to pay to have it R/R'ed again.

Hauled a goose neck trailer loaded with 2 cars (about 26,000 gross) to W. VA, near the Ohio line. Truck hauled the load fine, however on the way home, the transmission started smelling hot, so I know a bearing has had it. However, since the rebuilder said to run it, and he would pay any incidental bills (ie tow bills) I checked the oil, made certaiin it was overfull, and an scheduled to haul two cars to Breezewood PA tomorrow.

Good thing is, if the truck dies, the rearward car runs, slap the Recycler tag on it and drive on.



Ed

 

[bgilbert]

Hauled a goose neck trailer loaded with 2 cars (about 26,000 gross) to W. VA, near the Ohio line.

Ed, somewhere in the future if you do this alot, I think its time for a true HD transmission and a NV5600 6 speed would be the way to go. Or stay out of 5th gear OD while hauling heavy loads with the getrag.