Getrag Update

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Well, I got it out and somewhat tore down. To my utter surprise it was almost like new! pretty much normal wear on everything, no obvious reason why 4th growled so. Bearings seem good too.



I called ManTrans today and was asking the parts guy about something in the shim kit, and he said he had to find somebody to ask them. Well he said he would call me back, this was about 5. I expected him to call in a couple min or so, but no call yet. Not too aggravated, but I would like to have ordered them today.



I was going to ask if they had any snap rings, but I'll have to wait. Does anyone know if ST&G carries this stuff? Anyplace in NC that deals with stuff like that?



Whooboy, one more question. What about the idler shaft pins, says to replace? so many little parts. I think they ought to be in the rebuild kit too. They are with the Eaton and Rockwell rebuild kits.



Maybe I'll get some pics if anyone wants to see an ol Getrag that has been romped on with periodical increases of power over about 35,000 miles and a total of 217,000 miles.

Sorry for the rambling.



Steve

 

[JLEONARD]

Steve,

I for one would like to see some pics before, during and after if you have time to take and post them.



Got the manual today... thanks a bunch.

Jay

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

I can get the during, already took the mainshaft out. I'll take some Thurs before we do anything else.





Steve

 

[1stgen4evr]

Fourth gear growl

Steve are you sure you didn't mistake clutch noise for gear noise. I just don't know how the getrag can make noise in fourth. That is straight through. Do you have the clutch out. What about the center of the clutch. Is it hammering out. On an even more serious note, if you have not found anything wrong, you will not have fixed anything when you have finished.



I am not surprised that you have found everything perfectly shinny at 217k. Mine has 400k and is bright as a mirror. I have a syncro that is failing and the shift into third is hard. Otherwise perfect.



Talk to Milissa at ManTran. I got good result from her. She can email also.



The level of repair kit will determine what is in it. I think Standard has everything as well. I doubt that you need the idler pin or bearings. It is the least used of all. The short bolt in the side of the transmission holds the idler pin in place.



What about the pilot bearing land on the input shaft?



I don't have a dog in any of these hunts. I just like the getrag and enjoy TDR.



Take lots of pictures. There a lots of folks interested in what you are doing. I have some of the getrag and NV side by side.



1stgen4evr

James

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Well James,



I am still puzzled about the growling in 4th, if it was not the transmission then what could it be. I think I might have said before that 4th was the only gear to do it. Still haven't got the countershaft out yet.



I am thinking of putting a clutch in it since there wasn't anything really wrong with the getrag. The problem is which one(clutch)? I'm thinking about the Rally series, but I am not sure if it is 13" or not. Not a bad price either. General consensus seems to be to put a clutch in while there's nothing in the way.



I did email ManTrans first, asking if they carried the shims and snaprings, but they replied saying that I had to call.



I still guess that it was a good idea to take it out anyway, got all kinds of muscle and expertise(much more of the first)

The mounts look kinda wore out too, guess I'll be getting some of them from NAPA. Lots and lots of stuff to think about.



Thanks, Steve

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Here's some



Mainshaft[/IMG]#ad




Countershaft [/IMG]#ad






Steve

 

[1stgen4evr]

Getrag

Looks familiar. Is that yours or is that file photos. Wish you were closer. I want to look up close and personal. Keep us posted.



1stgen4evr

James

 

[RCCola]

Thanks for the pictures and the info... .



Was your growl at low rpms in 4th???? Like below 1500.



My 4th is / has made more and more noise over the last 100k



Below 1500 it sounds like it is about to start droping stuff out of the case...

But running hard threw the gears its got a lot less noise.



What are you alls thoughts



thanks and

Have a Great Day

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Close enough James? Yes it is mine!



[/IMG]#ad








Yeah RC, the growling occured in lower rpm's when I shifted from 3rd and got on it. If I kept my foot in it the growling would get pretty bad.



Many more pics to come. I'll make an album to stick them in, any specific parts you guys want pics of. Maybe the clutch, crossmembers, the reverse switch??





Steve

 

[Timebomb]

Guess i should have taken pics of the 4rth and 3rd gears were there were some teeth missing. Other than that i instaled new input 3rd gear bearings for about $395. I have 1500 miles on it so far its workin good.

 

[1stgen4evr]

Bear with me guys. I know I'm slow. I am just not understanding about this fourth gear noise thing and teeth missing. Fourth is straight through and there are no teeth to be missing. I think I must be using the wrong wording somehow.



Also don't want to sound like I am hung in gear but there is a noise that all these trucks with manual trannys will make that emanates from the clutch center. It sounds like the transmission but isn't. There are posts regarding this going way back. Is that the noise you are hearing? If it is, you are luging the engine and should be shifting down for more rpms. The engine doesn't care too much but the rest of the drive line is catching H***.



The spring balast in the center of the clutch can weaken with age and increase the noise. Power boosts would make the problem greater as each power pulse is greater. The center of the clutch has to smooth those pulses. A flywheel with more mass would help also. The reason I know of this goes back to when I was trying to get a clutch to stay behind a ctd back in 87 when we installed one in a chevy four door. We killed several before getting one from a shop in Savanah that worked.



Anybody got some ideas on this.



Great pics Steve. Make a bunch and post them.



1stgen4evr

James

 

[MikeO]

Guys... mine makes the same growling noise when in 4th at lower rpms. I had my transmission rebuilt at about 200K (70K ago) and it still makes the same noise.



Let me know if you find anything because we didn't. We just live with it and wind it up in 3rd before shifting.



Mike O.

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

I think without TDR and all you guys, this would have been a much more difficult undertaking. Thanks



Yeah James, I been thinking about that stuff alot, but It still makes a lot of sense to pull it down and replace this stuff while I got a halfway warm shop, a knowledgeable instructor, tools out the wazoo, and 20+ strong backs to help me. It is kinda dissapointing that it wasn't wore plumb out though . I bet the clutch is in lots worse shape. By the way, this is Transmission& PowerTrains class we are in on Tues&Thurs.

And there will probably be a clutch put in, but I am having problems deciding(see other thread).





Steve

 

[bgilbert]

ok, under CLUTCH tsb's; TSB# 06-01-90 A 12/31/90 89-91 (AD) w/ manual trans {Transmission noise below 1400rpm}. The bulletin describes a powertrain induced cyclic noise condition that appears to be transmission/driveline related. Especially noticeable in 4th and 5th gears, the noise occurs below 1400rpm during coast or light throttle. The noise is not damaging or durability related. The dianosis involves a road test to pinpoint the rpm at which the noise occurs. The revision involves a change of the flywheel.



CLUTCH; TSB#06-01-94 8/12/94 89-93 (AD) w/ manual trans {Transmission noise below 1400rpm} The bulletin describes a powertrain induced cyclic noise condition that appears to be transmission/driveline related. Especially noticeably in 4th and 5th gears, the noise occurs below 1400rpm during coast or light throttle. The noise is not damaging to the powertrain and is due to the dampening characteristics of the clutch springs. The revision, if needed, involves the replacement of the clutch disc.



Boy I hope this made since to someone. And Steven, maybe your problem was clutch related not getrag. ? Bill

 

[rlyons]

Guys there were TSB's put out on this very subject and growling noise under 1400 RPM was considered normal operation for the Getrag transmission. Mine has always growled at low rpm so the trick is to keep it above 1500 at all times. Mine will growl and moan and all sorts of noise when I get into it hard but that all comes with bombing and running more power than this setup was ever intended. So my felling is run it hard, maintain it to the max and let it roar.

Roy

 

[1stgen4evr]

getrag

Steve wrote



[I think without TDR and all you guys, this would have been a much more difficult undertaking. Thanks]



And you know, there are still people out there who don't even know about TDR. I stumbled on it after 14 years of unressolved Dodge problems. I have only been on the forums for about three months. It is a truly magnificient resource. Today I have comunicated with five different people in five seperate states that I would never have any way to contact without the TDR.



I have posted comments about membership before. I get some really offputing scowls until I make the person understand that I am not selling anything. I carry the membership sheet on the dash of my truck and pass them to anyone who has a CTD. I finally met someone in my travels who actually already knew about TDR just the other day. There must be at least 800k owners of these truck with a TDR membership of less than twenty thousand. There is still fertile ground out there.



Of course I am not going to buy a new truck but if I were, it would be from a dealer that was a TDR member. MY 93 with only 90k is like new and will be the truck they use to carry me to the grave in. I know that it will run as long as my 93 with 400k so that is why I am:





1stgne4evr

James

 

[CAROLINA CUMMINS]

Originally posted by bgilbert

The revision involves a change of the flywheel.





Maybe I need to check this out before I get mine resurfaced and reinstalled? Anybody had this fixed? Or should I just go ahead and resurface. I'll have a new clutch anyway.



I have the same problem with telling somebody about TDR. They don't seem real interested. I bet they would change their minds fast once they were on here a day.





Thanks, Steve

 

[Timebomb]

{Quote}"Bear with me guys. I know I'm slow. I am just not understanding about this fourth gear noise thing and teeth missing. Fourth is straight through and there are no teeth to be missing. I think I must be using the wrong wording somehow. "





I was just stating the prblem that i had with mine. I doubt thats the case with his.

 

[Mel Fuelling]

1) My getrag rattled before rebuild @ 193k(only because of dry pilot bushing damage to the input shaft) and after. It did seem to rattle less at first, but now @ 248k, it rattles from

1,000-2,000 rpm. More boost, more rattle. I thought maybe it was an internal transmission harmonics thing. The shop that did the rebuild for me showed me an NV 4500 and compared the shafts, gears to my getrag. The getrag looks very well built just on the basis of a visual comparison. They said that I should run it 1 1/2 qt. overfull to better lubricate the bearings.

2) At the same time I had my getrag rebuilt, I replaced the clutch disc (pilot bushing, throwout bearing and scuffed the pristine looking surfaces of the flywheel and pressure plate with 220 paper on a da sander) with a rebuilt clutch disc. It has given me a very smooth clutch engagement since, but I hadn't thought that the clutch hub springs might be responsible for all of the rattling noise when I stick my foot in it. Often in other applications, worn clutch hub springs will create a rattle in neutral at idle.



I drove a 97 ctd dually one day that had none of the rattle that I am used to and thought that was probably why people put NV4500's in their trucks, but maybe I was wrong.

I hope someone gets to the bottom of this. I'd love to keep my getrag and be rid of the rattle too.

 

[JLEONARD]

I also have a rattle/vibration that seems to be comming from the Getrag in the 1000/ 1800 rpm range... ... more vibration at higher boost levels.

But it shifts fine and feels ok otherwise.

Jay