GM Buying Chrysler?

[Grizzly]

I believe that Ford still has an agreement with Cummins that Ford would not use the medium duty Cummins (5. 9) in a light duty truck. An F450 and F550 are still considered light duty trucks. However they could use it on a medium duty truck, which is an F650 and up.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gee, who would have thought that Ford would build just one Ford F-550 with a Cummins engine.

Dig noted...



No one in their right mind - at least not for the general public - but there ARE plenty of examples of limited, even single production vehicles for special purposes and individuals.



Bottom line is, IF Ford WAS able to get a Cummins contract to use their engines in medium duty trucks - and decided it would be a profitable move - do YOU or anyone else really think a little frame and sheetmetal design would stop them?



Hell - there's been several right here on THIS board who have transplanted the Cummins into GM and Ford vehicles - with end results approaching that of factory installs...

 

[HBarlow]

Ford apparently already has a "contract" to install Cummins ISB engines in so-called medium duty trucks which are F-650 and F-750s. They have been offered and available for years. The Cummins ISB is the engine of choice in big Ford trucks.

I don't know and have not expressed an opinion whether Ford would choose to install Cummins inline 6 cylinder diesel engines in their light duty trucks which are F-250 and F-350s, or not. I do know that substantial reengineering would be required in order for them to do that.

 

[DJW]

HBarlow, bit off the subject, but when in Australia was told there was a Ford Slant Six engine in jeep type vehicle, I corrected that it was a Dodge, (they were Dodge and Chrysler people) no they said it was a Ford, I then countered it was probably a regular Ford six engine slanted with a sump pan designed to accommodate oil etc. They were very patient with me, lifted the hood etc, then explained that an Australian government department believe something like our Parks or Forestry and asked Ford to build a few thousand for their use. Why with all the engines available from many manufacturers from 4s to 8s no one had any idea, plus why slant 6. (governments work in many mysterious ways)

 

[opjohnny]

Don't forget the the dealer swap possibility. I know it is a big longshot but it occurred in the late sixties early seventies, Yenko camaro ring a bell?

 

[Moe]

Im afraid our beloved CUMMINS will be the choice of diesels in the Chebby company. I will keep my y2k dodge forever or until my time is up.

 

[raksasa]

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DETROIT (Reuters) - Talks on a deal to sell Chrysler LLC to Nissan Motor Co (7201. T) and Renault SA (RENA. PA) have halted because the No. 3 U. S. automaker's owner favors a deal with General Motors Corp (GM. N), The Detroit News reported on Saturday.

Citing sources familiar with the situation, the newspaper said no further talks have been scheduled between private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP (CBS. UL), which sees a deal with No. 1 U. S. automaker GM as financially more advantageous and better for the struggling U. S. auto industry.

In an earlier report, The Detroit News said the Nissan-Renault alliance had proposed buying 20 percent of Chrysler.

A spokesman for Cerberus declined to comment.

Earlier this week Nissan-Renault Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn dismissed reports of merger talks with Chrysler as speculation, adding that it did not make sense to risk cash in the current economic environment to form a strategic alliance.

GM and Chrysler have been in talks on a possible merger, but according to sources any deal will have to wait until after the U. S. presidential elections on Nov 4 as the Bush administration ruled out providing government funding for it.

 

[SNiebaum]

Im afraid our beloved CUMMINS will be the choice of diesels in the Chebby company. I will keep my y2k dodge forever or until my time is up.

I just don't see that happening... lets assume this merger goes through, I believe that Cummins gets tossed out in favor of the GM built and developed Duramax. It's an in-house engine and they have no reason to ditch it.



In this scenario, Ford sweeps in and offers to buy engines from Cummins and they will virtually own the truck market.

 

[Bob4x4]

I don't look at it like a merger,more like a take over and a bigger rape than what the Germans did



Bob

 

[Grizzly]

I just don't see that happening... lets assume this merger goes through, I believe that Cummins gets tossed out in favor of the GM built and developed Duramax. * It's an in-house engine and they have no reason to ditch it. * In this scenario, Ford sweeps in and offers to buy engines from Cummins and they will virtually own the truck market.

Duramax is not a GM in-house built engine. * The engine is made and supplied by Isuzu, a Japanese auto maker.



Not much chance of Ford using the mighty Cummins due to a required complete redesign of the F series.

 

[DennyDay]

Don't worry about GM taking over Chrysler - - The Feds told GM no bailout $$.



Do worry about Chrysler surviving at all!



Denny

 

[HBarlow]

Duramax is not a GM in-house built engine. * The engine is made and supplied by Isuzu, a Japanese auto maker.

Not much chance of Ford using the mighty Cummins due to complete redesign of the F series.

True. And GM would also have to redesign their poor excuses for trucks to fit a might Cummins inline 6 just like Ford's problem.

The thinking patterns of GM/Chevy owners has always been a mystery to me. Most of my friends and acquaintenances here in West Texas were born and bred to be Chevy owners. They wouldn't own or drive anything else and would think anyone that suggested a Japanese auto product to them was nuts. Yet some will happily buy an Isuzu Trooper/Ascender rebadged as a Chevy/Pontiac/Buick/Saturn and think they are driving a quality automobile. Likewise the GM diesel trucks with Japanese Isuzu engines.

 

[Ncostello]

The Duramax was a joint venture design with GM and Isuzu. Isuzu didn't just develop the engine with nobody in mind to purchase them. GM had alot to do with it. Japan makes a heck of a diesel. Kubota and Komatsu come to mind also. I actually like Japan as a business partner... IF I have to pick one. Better than a Chinese, Russian or French diesel. Right?



Ford would retool for a Cummins. They are already retooling for their own entire Ford diesel powerplant to rid themselves of Navistar. Just a matter of clicking "create new file" on the CAD and cranking out the drawings.



Ever seen underhood of a fully optioned 6. 4L??? The technology is from NASA. Has to be to get all that stuff in there. There is plenty of room for an inline 6. I counted 9 radiator/cooler/intercooler/condenser looking devices mounted at all angles and slants. Its really amazing.



Just my opinion.

 

[Bob4x4]

The Duramax was a joint venture design with GM and Isuzu. Isuzu didn't just develop the engine with nobody in mind to purchase them. GM had alot to do with it. Japan makes a heck of a diesel. Kubota and Komatsu come to mind also. I actually like Japan as a business partner... IF I have to pick one. Better than a Chinese, Russian or French diesel. Right?



Ford would retool for a Cummins. They are already retooling for their own entire Ford diesel powerplant to rid themselves of Navistar. Just a matter of clicking "create new file" on the CAD and cranking out the drawings.



Ever seen underhood of a fully optioned 6. 4L??? The technology is from NASA. Has to be to get all that stuff in there. There is plenty of room for an inline 6. I counted 9 radiator/cooler/intercooler/condenser looking devices mounted at all angles and slants. Its really amazing.



Just my opinion.

Not so amazing when you have to lift the body off to work on it :-laf



Bob

 

[Grizzly]

The Duramax was a joint venture design with GM and Isuzu. Isuzu didn't just develop the engine with nobody in mind to purchase them. GM had alot to do with it. Japan makes a heck of a diesel. Kubota and Komatsu come to mind also. I actually like Japan as a business partner... IF I have to pick one. Better than a Chinese, Russian or French diesel. Right?



Ford would retool for a Cummins. They are already retooling for their own entire Ford diesel powerplant to rid themselves of Navistar. Just a matter of clicking "create new file" on the CAD and cranking out the drawings.



Ever seen underhood of a fully optioned 6. 4L??? The technology is from NASA. Has to be to get all that stuff in there. There is plenty of room for an inline 6. I counted 9 radiator/cooler/intercooler/condenser looking devices mounted at all angles and slants. Its really amazing.



Just my opinion.

Duramax is an Isuzu designed engine. The only thing GM demanded was for Isuzu to make it an aluminum block instead of cast iron.



Furd is not interest in an in-line six. They like V8's, so there's not much chance that they would want the mighty Cummins.



I've looked under the hood of my brother-in-law's 08 super duty. It's a nightmare. Nothing amazing about that.

 

[Bob4x4]

Duramax is an Isuzu designed engine. The only thing GM demanded was for Isuzu to make it an aluminum block instead of cast iron.



Furd is not interest in an in-line six. They like V8's, so there's not much chance that they would want the mighty Cummins.



I've looked under the hood of my brother-in-law's 08 super duty. It's a nightmare. Nothing amazing about that.

Aluminum heads... ..... not block



Bob

 

[Ncostello]

The joint venture company was developed as DMAX Ltd in 1998 and has a capital structure of 60% GM and 40% Isuzu America. The plant is in Moraine, Ohio. All Duramax engines made by its 1200 American employees are specifically and only for GM applicatons. But yes it was designed by Isuzu with alot of GM input for their specific application and needs.



I'd say there is more to it than just GM requesting Isuzu use aluminum as a head material.



Ford used to make their own inline 6 diesel... the 7. 8L. And they still maintain an inline Cummins in some medium duty trucks. They have interest. Not that they'll do it... but the interest is there.

 

[raksasa]

DETROIT (Reuters) - Chrysler LLC is rapidly burning through cash and being driven to prepare for a possible break-up if it can't clinch a merger with General Motors Corp or get government funding needed to ride out the economic crisis, people with knowledge of the situation said.

Without new funding or a wrenching restructuring, executives have raised concern about the automaker's ability to finance its operations from existing cash beyond the first half of 2009, said the sources, who were not authorized to discuss Chrysler's performance.

Chrysler has had to pay out over $100 million a month to support strained suppliers on top of a total $200 million support to sales through dealers in August and September as it suspended vehicle lease financing, the sources said.

The $11. 7 billion the struggling automaker said it had as of end-June has seen a substantial decline because of the company's deteriorating performance marked by a 35 percent slide in October sales and increasing cash incentives, they said.

Chrysler and its owner Cerberus Capital Management LP declined to comment.

Cerberus and GM had agreed last month on the broad terms of a merger of Chrysler's loss-making auto operations and those of its crosstown rival but the deal foundered when the Bush administration rebuffed a request for some $10 billion to support it, sources have said.

 

[raksasa]

Did Chrysler "dodge" a bullet here? (or maybe a bowtie)

DETROIT, Mich. – General Motors Corp. reported a $2. 5 billion loss in the third quarter and warned Friday that it could run out of cash in 2009 if the U. S. economic slump continues and it doesn't get government aid.

GM also said it has suspended talks to acquire Chrysler. While it didn't specifically name the automaker, GM said it was setting aside considerations for a "strategic acquisition. "

"While the acquisition could potentially have provided significant benefits, the company has concluded that it is more important at the present time to focus on its immediate liquidity challenges and, accordingly, considerations of such a transaction as a near-term priority have been set aside," the company said in a statement.

Privately held Chrysler said it won't comment on GM's statement, but added it remains focused on returning to profitability.

GM said its cash burn for the quarter accelerated to $6. 9 billion, and government aid will be "essential" because of the slow economy and credit crisis.

If companies run out of cash, generally they can sell assets, cut costs or file for bankruptcy protection to keep creditors at bay while they develop a financial reorganization plan.

 

[EGroeneveld]

Anyone else amazed at the poor management at the big 3?!!! They never learned lessons from the past.



I also wonder how much all this talk of a merger or business problems hurt the lauch of the new Ram 1500.