Good Explanation of Powerstroke Injectors in case you wanted to know

[hammersley]

http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/injector.htm



Am I glad I don't have these - note the warning about loosing the anti-foaming agent - kind'a kills any long term oil changes.

 

[FFutch]

K.I.S.S.

I think Phord and I. H. should learn what this stands for . There's too much crap on the P. O. S. D. that'll leave you stranded . We've got these things at work and between c. p. s,i. d. m. ,glow plug wiring(the list can go on all day)THEY SUCK! Doug

 

[kcjayco]

Thanks for the thread. I have never worked on a PSD. It was interesting reading.

 

[DGFoster]

I have owned two PS a 99 and 2000,and I can tell you when the oil foamed up the truck would not run,I tryed all recommended oils for this engine and under hard pulling in hot conditions,the truck would just quit,and the dealers could just say,change the oil and it would be fine,well yes it was fine ran great after that,but sometimes had to change it before 3000 miles once after 1500 I had to change it.

I towed all of the 120,000 miles that I put on the 99,and it worked hard,don't know if that had anything to do with it or not,and I run my Dodge just as hard or harder and never had anything happen like that.

I don't like the idea of the oil running the injectors like it does,under high pressure.

Was ok as long as the oil was new.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Talk about reinventing the wheel. What a (power) joke. Sure glad we dont have these complicated nightmares. I had one before as a work truck that had the same "bubbles in the oil" problem. Only one question comes to mind, "WHY" does Inter-trash-ional use this goofy system? Oh yea, air in the fuel line, guess not running the fuel tank dry was not considered??? Thanks for the info. Pehaps the engieers that designed this had "bubbles on the brain".

 

[joesoot]

Is this bubbling where that nasty ckhckhckhckhckhckhckc sound comes from?

I don't hear it on the older body style Fords just the newer ones.

 

[COBRAJET]

The cackling noise comes from the number 8 cylinder... the last one being fed by fuel. It is suppose to be do to a fuel pressure issue arising from a change in the fuel return line. There is no longer one back to the tank in the newer trucks. The problem has been fixed by a different injector in the number 8 hole. It appears that the Duramax also has some peculiar fueling noises which have not been diagnosed as of yet. A neighbor owns a Duramax and it sounds like the engine is popping pop corn under both of the front wheel wells. If the engine made a little bit more noise it would not be audible. The PSD is kind of weird since the majority of the trucks do not do it. My 99. 5 has never had the noise and most the other owners I know have never had the problem. I have heard the noise in one truck which was fixed by the the higher flowing injector.

The fueling system is actually a CAT design and is used in many of their engines without any problems at all. The trucks do not require anything special other than normal oil change intervals. I change out at around 4K miles and have never had a fueling issue. The truck works in hot weather most of the time without any complaints. Trucks which have problems are generally service oriented vehicles which get far less respect and maintanance than we tend to give our vehicles.

The issue is not brought up much on the Ford site. If it was a problem people would be complaining... we are all pretty good at that... CJ

 

[DGFoster]

Cobra Jet,

My 99 never had a cackle problem,and the 2000 didn't either,it was really wierd the 99 would miss when the oil got about 2000 to 3500 miles on it,or it would just quit until the oil cooled a bit,the 2000 I never had that problem,I loved the truck,but am happier with my Dodge. .

 

[COBRAJET]

Dodgeboyz,



What kind of oil was going into those trucks? My PSD has had Amsoil in it since around 10K miles. I will switch to Amsoil in the Cummins the next oil change... at around 20K miles. My PSD has pulled a 15K lb trailer a ton without any problems... in very hot weather. The Cummins has pulled it as well. They both just pull it along without any problems at all. The Cummins does get about 15% better mileage. 11. 5 versus 10. The majority of the PSD guys seem to use Rotella. Over here it seems like Delo is used more often. I am using it in the Cummins right now.

 

[DGFoster]

Cobrajet,

Unfortunatly,I didn't know about the amsoil,but the oil I was using for the first 50,000 miles was Motorcraft oil,the dealer changed the oil for the first 50,000,and then I switched to Valvoline,all 15W 40.

I never tryed any synthetics.

I never had the problem with the 2000 just the 99.

The techs all sugested different oils,and I tryed them,but the best was the Motorcraft,I had less problems with it than the others.

Wish I would have known about the Amsoil then. .

 

[FFutch]

way way overpriced

Just bought a c. p. s. for the company truck. Get this $177 . There ain't no reason for this magnetic pickup sensor should cost so much. I just replaced an s. r. s in a 60 series and it was only $40. This sensor does basically the same thing in a 60. As many of these things that go bad in the p. s. d. they should only cost $2. Also Cats Huei system is far from perfect. I was talking to the head mech. where I used to work(K. W. dealer),he told me the 3126s were having alot of injector sleeve problems. The high pressure oil was getting by the o-rings and getting in the fuel . Oh well glad I don't have to spend my money on these overpriced P. O. S. s . Doug

 

[Dr.Evil]

Wow, You try to educate these guys and all they can do is complain and whine and gripe... . I read My TDR magazine and see Guys welding up cracks in the front cowl sheet metal, and you guys are complaining about stuff that never ever causes problems on the PSD. I wonder why You guys talk so much about the PSD anyhow? I've put about a million miles on Cunnins engines, and it wouldn't bother me if one was in My truck, But My truck would still be a FORD. I bought a truck that came with a really good diesel engine, I didn't by a diesel engine that came in a plain brown wrapper.....

 

[joesoot]

Originally posted by Dr. Evil

I've put about a million miles on Cunnins engines, and it wouldn't bother me if one was in My truck, But My truck would still be a FORD. I bought a truck that came with a really good diesel engine, I didn't by a diesel engine that came in a plain brown wrapper.....

I am so sick of hearing "oh, the Cummins is a great engine in a lousy wrapper". I must be one of the few that thought Dodge has the stout-est drivetrain in a well built good looking truck. In 8. 5 months and 13,XXX miles my '01 has been the tightest vehicle i've ever owned. Built in Mexico nonetheless. The way the doors close, the lack of suspension noise when I four wheel(maybe I can't hear it over the engine), for an SFA truck it tracks and handles quite well.

My only gripes: Thin sheet metal, and thinner paint.

About the PSD, your telling me that bubbled oil doesn't cause any problems? How well does foam lubricate anyway? How well does foam pressurize your intensifier piston?

Why does this griping bother you?

Is it not enough for you, yourself to know and have confidence in your engine, must it be proven to the world?

 

[COBRAJET]

I own both and have no real problems with either. The Cummins came with a persistant oil leak which took 4 visits to fix. The clock spring has been replaced twice and it still has a rattle behind the glove box... . which has been "FIXED" four times. It has 18K miles on it now.



The PSD has 80K miles and has had the fuel pump replaced at 800miles. No other problems.



They both seem very well built without any major complaints. I do like the seats better in the PSD... maybe I have them worn just right. Visibilty is better in the Ford. The radio is better in the Ford... both stock highend units. The Dodge gets better mileage and has better brakes... likely both do to the weight difference. I like the steering wheel radio controls on the Dodge... BIGTIME!!The Ford had a horrible stock transmission cooling system... just a cooler not running through the radiator. They fixed that in 2000. Mine has a huge cooler underneath the truck with twin fans... never goes above 160... EVER!!





I have never understood the Dodge has the better drivetrain claim. The Ford carries the higher GVW... 1K more on a DRW 4X2 and 500lbs on the 4X4... unless something changed for 2002. The 2002 Fords all have the Dana 60 frontend now... which is the high pinion reverse rotation unit not found on the Cummins. I prefer lockouts as well versus some center axle disconnect. The rearends are a tossup with a slight advantage to the Cummins for the available 80 in a 2500. The 6 speeds have no complaints from either side. Auto's suck in both if the bombing begins... stock about the same... . maybe a slightly better unit in the PSD... . about on level with the Cummins rearend advantage in the 6 speed 2500. The PSD is also available in a 9900GVW SRW... WHY NOT THE CUMMINS with all that drivetrain advantage?? I have never had that answered??



I have no true favorite!! I have owned two Cummins and 3 PSD's... . two of them for the four doors. All of them were and are virtually trouble free trucks. You can't ask for much more than that. Buy what you want and complain about the rest. I get to complain about them both... lucky me... . CJ

 

[joesoot]

Thanks for the info COBRAJET and honest evaluation. You provide some insight that many of us cannot, especially lack of bias; as you have pride in both trucks. Why was I ranting, just sick of hearing "oh, the Cummins is a great engine in a lousy wrapper" which IMHO is a big steaming pile of dookie.

As for drivetrains...

I favor the NVG 6 speed due to the cast iron case(yes, extra weight), the input torque rating of 550 ft-lbs and the pattern. Have I ever driven a 6 speed equipped PSD? no. The pattern looks to funny for me and I don't like the idea of aluminum case.

The NVG has a GVW of 16,000 lbs. and a GCW of 26,000. Well I know you cannot drive a transmission but that makes me all warm, fuzzy and comfortable. Granted ZF makes many big truck trannys, I will never own another German transmission in my life, due to my experiences with the Getrag.

I used to think negative paranoid thoughts about the center axle disconnect on my Dodge, but after using 4wd numerous times on some slippery hairy stuff, I rest assured it works, never had any engagement problems. I do envy the Tcase you Ford guys get though as it is a little heavier duty than my 241HD but both are Dodge/GM commissioned T-cases.

Why is Ford rated at a higher GVW? Ask Dodge why the Dana can't carry what the Sterling does(is it still a Sterling, if so, who owns Sterling?). I'll keep my Dana axles and Spicer components.

 

[COBRAJET]

joesoot,

I am pretty sure the ZF carries the same weight ratings. It is the same transmission that is in the F550. I am not sure of the torque rating?? I have driven a 6speed PSD and it is as smooth as the Cummins. The pattern is that way because in doing some "market research" they were suppose to have learned that their buyers wanted reverse and 1st on top of each other for easier rocking when stuck... . who knows. . whatever.



Sterling is owned by Ford. The GVW's have always been a mystery. I don't think it is Dana sticking the plate on the door. It has to do with Dodge. In the DRW's the rearend is rated at 8250 in the PSD and 7500 in the Dodge. Virtually the same rearend. As for front ends I prefer all manual... I know eventually that will be taken away, but as far as tough goes nothing beats a reverse rotation DANA 60 with manual lockouts... . doesn't mean Dodge's doesn't work... . they should just offer a manual system.



Is Dodge still going to American axle???... CJ

 

[Briar Hopper]

The oil foaming in PSD's is due to the silicone used in the gaskets of the engine, reacting against the oil. It usually goes away after a few oil changes. It's unfortunate about that, it's basically a good engine.

As for which trucks are more troublesome, I've had a LOT more trouble out of my Dodge than I did with my Ford.

Of course, I don't regret buying it, I love it and would rather have a Cummins, but that PSD is a mighty nice second choice.

All this brand bashing gets old, guys.

 

[Dr.Evil]

BRIAN H. - I agree - All this fuming & whatnot about stuff that never even breaks on the Ford and PSD is stupid. My '96 PSD turned over 170K this morning and I've used Rotella since day #1, and supposedly It's supposed to foam the worst. I've never had a second's problem. Injectors will last the same as ALL electrical devices..... Until They get tired. Could take 100 miles, could take a Million miles... Normally it sounds like the wire harness/valve cover gasket causes the problem and it's avail. at My Navistar dealer. It's senseless to bad-mouth a truck You've never even driven. Sure makes Your opinion worth less than $0. 02 in My book. I joined the TDR to see if I should consider a CTD as My next truck. Glad I spent the $35, but ALSO not renewing my subscription. In almost 5-1/2 yrs and 170K My truck has been back to the dealer for ONE CPS at 50K. And I had balljoints put in the TTB last summer. And that's the ONLY maintenance that I have hired done to it. Still has the Factory brakes & DMFW. And as far as the ZF transmission is concerned, is Getrag used by any other OEM's like Mercedes, BMW, etc? My first 2 F-150's had NP 435 4-speeds and they were Poor transmissions. Hard to shift and the synchros were not durable. It's called New Venture now, but it used to be called New Process. SAME design.

 

[hammersley]

Stirling is owed by........

Nope Stirling is not owned by FORD. It is owned by none other that Freightliner who is owened by we all know that don't we??????



http://www.sterlingtrucks.com/

 

[COBRAJET]

I was under the impression those are two different companies. The Sterling rearends have been around for at least 15 years. I thought the Sterling truck name... brought back by Ford around 5 years ago and later sold was a different animal. I still see the rearend called the FORD Sterling in just about every publication??... CJ