Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Good News- Carter lift pump

[wlowe]

I would like to hook up a temporary fuel pressure gauge on my 2001.

Briar Hopper makes a nice unit, I believe it hooks up to the shrader valve.



http://www.blackmountaindiesel.com/index2.html



Bill

 

[Behr]

Originally posted by wlowe

Briar Hopper makes a nice unit, I believe it hooks up to the shrader valve.



http://www.blackmountaindiesel.com/index2.html



Bill

Bill... thanks... I just sent Black Mountain a quick email on this item.



I hate to put anything in permanent at this time... realy do not want DC finding any kind of excuse to void warranty work later.







Gordon

 

[15w40]

C1B1DIESEL posted this some time ago:



24V refers to 24 volts used in applications other than orr Rams.

12V refers to 12 volts.



Here is a little history on the lift pumps and what changes were done to them and part Numbers. Hope this helps

this is long. Don’t ask were it came from and I will not have to lie



CORRECTIVE ACTION SUMMARY



Below is a brief history of Lift Pump Part Number and associated

design/product changes:



12V 24V



3943467 3942802 Initial ISB Production



3944818 3942802 Added "saw cut" to the motor casing to better

detect leaks during production



3944508 Stainless Steel Valve Seat/Bronze Bushing for

the Internal Pressure Regulator



3945812 3945813 Some lift pumps were having a problem with

the internal wiring shorting to the magnet sleeve. The wiring

insulation was inadvertently being

stripped from the wiring during assembly and during pumps operation the

wires are shorting to the magnet sleeve.

Federal Mogul has changed the angularity of the wire lugs in the bottom

of the pump so the wires will enter behind the

magnet sleeve in a more direct manner, thereby reducing the chances of

stripping

the insulation. They also changed their end

of the line testing to look for this shorting problem during pump

operation. Federal Mogul is also adding a

radius to the top and the bottom of the magnet sleeve where the wires

travel behind the sleeve.



3948431 3948432 Corrosion of the connection of the pigtail

at the bottom of the pump was being seen. This was found to be to the

result of road salt acting as an electrolyte.

The vendor changed the electrical eye terminal from brass to

bronze. No corrosion is evident during simulation

and salt fog tests with the bronze terminal. The mechanical properties

of the bronze meet or exceed that of the

brass and the vendor did conduct vibration test for further

verification. To further aid in corrosion

resistance, grease was added to each terminal at the Engine plant during

assembly.



3946151 3948070 the lift pump was updated with an

integral electrical connector. The integrated connector eliminates the

need for a pigtail type harness on the pump

and will eliminate the exposure of the pigtail to environmental elements.

Also updated was EMI reduction for the pump

due to an added capacitor to the internal circuit board and a Ferrite bead

added to the connector.



3948431 (12V) and 3948432 (24V) where still

kept available for service because the wiring harness on older engines

where not long enough to plug into the integral adapter.



3938367 3938368 It was found the bearing material used

for the MFR. of bearings was not consistently uniform, leading to

variance in the pump performance. This

leads to change the bearing material to sintered iron from bronze.

There was also a change in armature shaft

geometry to straight one reduces the 100% inspection of the shafts.

These pumps have the integral connector.



For service, 3948431 (12V) was superceded to

3938435 (12V) and 3948434 (24V) was superceded to 3938436 (24V).

These pumps still maintain the pigtail wiring harness.



3990082 This is a service kit supercedes

3948431(12V). It includes 3938367 (12V) and a jumper harness (4025182) so

that it can be used on older engines with the

shorter lift pump connection wiring harness. 3938436 (24V) was superceded

to 3938368 (24V), but a kit was not created to

included the jumper harness, 4025182 must be ordered separately.







3990105 3990106 The lift pumps have been updated to include

hardened valve seat to reduce valve wear. The pump also reverts to a

prior use RFI circuit board due to components being

detached and jamming the pump.



Service kit 3990082 was updated to include

3990105 (12V). 3938368 (24V) was superceded to 3990106 (24V), but a kit

was not created to included the jumper harness,

4025182 must be ordered separately.





III. IMPLEMENTATION SUMMARY

The supplier started building pumps with these corrective actions in the

first week of May 2001. The latest lift pumps, part number 3990105 and

3990106 when into production

 

[jelag]

hey... ...



I have an account with federal mogel... ... . is Carter owned by them... .



What's the complete part number????



I want to see if I can order it direct... .



Thanks

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by 1tuffram

Better question would be why dosen't Carter address this problem?



ABrameloah, it is apperient even the latest version of the pump is still failing in the Dodge application. What is Engineering's response to this? Myself and thousands of other TDR members would be interested to hear Carter's response to the seemingly high incidence of lift pump failures and what steps are being taking to resolve this issue.

I think if you are Carter you sell more pumps if you don't solve the problem

 

[1tuffram]

Originally posted by Pit Bull

I think if you are Carter you sell more pumps if you don't solve the problem

I think you hit the nail on the head there Pit Bull. I'm sure Carter's and DC's response are the same "What problem? We never knew or heard of a problem"



Such an upsetting and sad deal for everyone. I guess it is asking too much for the involved manufacture's to step-up to the plate, take responsibility and resolve this issue.

 

[ABrameloah]

CARTER PUMPS

Boy are you guys tuff!!!!!! this was just going to be a little info about getting the pump in the after market but back to the problems with the pump. Location is a big factor in failure rate!!! Ideally the rotary vane should be no moor than 3 feet from the fuel supply and the big old thumping Cummings plays heck on the enerds of the pump.

 

[daveshoe]

Is heat a factor?

I am aware of location factor, but I wonder about effect of temperature. Yesterday the beast was sittin in the sun and I lost 5 PSI from my normal running numbers. It recovered only slightly when I ran to town ,but improved as temperature dropped. Back to normal with morning start up. Anyone else noticed this?

No need for big theory discussion , just wondered if anyone else has seen this.

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: CARTER PUMPS

Originally posted by ABrameloah

Boy are you guys tuff!!!!!! this was just going to be a little info about getting the pump in the after market but back to the problems with the pump. Location is a big factor in failure rate!!! Ideally the rotary vane should be no moor than 3 feet from the fuel supply and the big old thumping Cummings plays heck on the enerds of the pump.

So my regular cab being shorter should be easier on the pump then for people driving quad cabs.

 

[RustyJC]

Re: Re: CARTER PUMPS

Originally posted by Pit Bull

So my regular cab being shorter should be easier on the pump then for people driving quad cabs.

NOW we know why Dodge never built a 24 valve 2nd generation crew cab!



Rusty

 

[JohnMcIntyre]

Right on the money...?

Originally posted by RustyJC

NOW we know why Dodge never built a 24 valve 2nd generation crew cab!



Rusty

Many a true word spoken in jest... ...

 

[Pit Bull]

I did a rough measurement on my regular cab and the distance from the lift pump to the front of the fuel tank is around 3'10" (could be a little closer or further) that along with never going below 1/2 tank of fuel, I wonder if that will make my stock pump last longer. My truck was made in 6/02 so I have the latest pump. I guess time will tell

 

[Big White Beast]

Lets see if I have this straight..........

Carter is now offering a pump to the general public that was designed to meet Cummins specs for pressure and DC's specs for it being a package motor purchased from Cummins hence the location on the motor.



They say that the pump is not suitable for this application and have done no major redesigns to try and fix it. They are selling it for more than you could purchase it from Cummins. And if my guess is right it will have a disclaimer for the warranty that it be prefiltered like some of their other pumps.



Other than availability this stinks... ... ... .



Just my 2¢ worth,



Garrett



EDIT: ABrameloah, please don't take this as a slam, I'm not attacking the messenger. It's the message I'm having a hard time with.

 

[Ncostello]

ABrameloah, 15W40 (or anyone)... the Carter P4601HP is 100 GPH @15psi. It also has the 3/8" NPT ports. How much different is this than the OEM pump Carter makes and Cummins sells?



I know the Carter OEM we use has a lower GPH and the ports are M12x1. 5. I know the electrical connections are slightly different on the revised OEM pump. But as far as all the upgrades 15W40 mentioned... did Carter make similar upgrades to the "other" pumps it sells that look just like the OEM... more or less.



I'm doing a new filter setup currently... and would much rather have a Carter 15psi pump with the 3/8" NPT ports versus the M12x1. 5. However, I dont want a pump that is less reliable than the one they make for Cummins. Plus all those who are looking at a pusher might like to know if these Carters are "better" than they first were.