goose neck adapter

[pwerwagn]

Jeff,

Their website has "kudos" and I got mine back in 07 from a reseller who had several pleased customers per his claim.



Mine is just like in the picture you linked to. The very short tube with 3 screws projecting out is what goes over the standard kingpin and the locking collar that actually is on the kingpin and it not visible.



They have installation instructions online. I've seen MANY Gooseneck adapters of the straight tube to the ball in most campgrounds I've been in. But I've never encountered anyone who has this adapter. Obviously its stronger than any pinbox I've seen. !

I was actually referring to the tube/piece of tubing that is fastened to the pinbox on the back side, and looks like it goes back up into the 5th wheel somewhere and ties into the frame. Like a brace to prevent the pinbox from flexing or something. Ive seen that quite a few times on GN adapter 5th's. My cousin had one installed on his 5th by the dealer a while back, and even they took some ~1. 25" DOM and welded it to the adapter, and back and up into the frame of the 5th wheel about 2-3' back from the pin box.

 

[CharlesHoward]

Regarding risk analysis in terms of liklihood and consequence, replacing the Refrigerator which has prompted recalls and still seem to burn down RVs, is potentially at least as frequent and much more catastrophic than "ocassional frame strengenthing" or conversely failure might entail. This month's trailer life assistance column documents a frame failure, presumably with a normal fiver hitch based on a poorly welded frame.

So far, my trailer must have decent welding.

 

[Cummins12V98]

While we are on this topic... Has anyone ever had a Reese 5th wheel hitch "release"?



Reason I ask:

I used to have a victoria industries 5th wheel hitch in my truck. It was bulletproof. It had an obvious positive latch that you could see slide behind the kingpin, and I KNEW that trailer wasnt going anywhere. Problem was, it didnt slide (I have a shortbed), and it didnt pivot side to side. The places I take my trailer are pretty rough. SOOO... I bought a Reese slider/pivot hitch. I do not get a warm fuzzy when I latch it. It has half the jaw on each side, and it clamps down around the kingpin. Then there is a piece of ~1/8" plate that latches on the side that keeps the jaws from opening. The entire hitch is "sloppy" compared to my old victoria, but I have had it ~2 years now and its taken the trailer through some rough places and hasnt failed. But its still always in the back of my mind...



Anyone else ever had these thoughts?

I have seen more damaged truck beds from the 5er dropping on the truck bed with Reese hitches. I have a B&W there is no question if it is latched or not.

 

[CharlesHoward]

I googled Gooseneck Frame Failures and got to reread all the "hearsay", moment arm,

lever, etc. and lots of my own postings.

Also got to reread this illuminating tale of an actual frame failure with a gooseneck adapter

http://www.rv-boondocking-the-good-life.com/hitchrepair.html

Maybe someday I'll get to have my frame beefed up before continuing on my way...

 

[pwerwagn]

I have seen more damaged truck beds from the 5er dropping on the truck bed with Reese hitches. I have a B&W there is no question if it is latched or not.

Im contemplating some secondary latching on mine, just to give me peace of mind.

 

[pwerwagn]

I googled Gooseneck Frame Failures and got to reread all the "hearsay", moment arm,

lever, etc. and lots of my own postings.

Also got to reread this illuminating tale of an actual frame failure with a gooseneck adapter

http://www.rv-boondocking-the-good-life.com/hitchrepair.html

Maybe someday I'll get to have my frame beefed up before continuing on my way...

Charles,

I read most of that article. There is one thing I dont see where they come from.

I know there's folks out there that are gonna say; "Your hitch repair had to be done 'cause you've got that Gooseneck adapter on there!".



NOPE. It swear it ain't so. The gooseneck adapter is the SAME LENGTH, between the pin box and the Truck Bed/Ball as a fifth wheel hitch would be. That means the LEVER it could create is the same length.



To increase the torque on the pin box requires a longer lever. And that torque is only going to happen if the adapter or fifth wheel hitch locks up. Since a Fifth Wheel hitch locks up Far, Far, Far sooner (with only 5-7 degrees of available movement) than a gooseneck (with enough movement that the trailer is going to fall over before the hitch locks) ever will... the Gooseneck adapter, in the end is likely to apply less torque. (especially in RV Boondocking situations)

Im not sure I buy this. I dont think the hitch has to "lock up" to apply torque. If you rear-end someone and the truck and trailer are still on a flat surface, the force of the trailer pushing straight forward is going to apply torque on the pin box. As it does, it will want to stress that whole area. The difference at this point being, the pinbox+adapter are going to want to pivot around the ball. With a 5th wheel hitch, the leverage of the hitch in the bed of the truck is going to want to stress the brackets, rails and truck frame (more so than a gn ball will). The pinbox will be the only lever arm on the trailer frame (I think?).



Not questioning your judgement at all... just wanting to discuss this theory.

 

[RustyJC]

NOPE. It swear it ain't so. The gooseneck adapter is the SAME LENGTH, between the pin box and the Truck Bed/Ball as a fifth wheel hitch would be. That means the LEVER it could create is the same length.

The distance between the pin box and the truck bed is as irrelevent as the distance from the pin box to Jupiter. The point on the truck that's important in this comparison is the hitch coupling point (5th wheel jaws or gooseneck ball) that couples the truck to the trailer. That's the point where the truck applies force to the trailer and vice versa. In a structural analysis, the 5th wheel hitch is considered to be part of the TRUCK, not the trailer. The appropriate question is "Where does the truck apply acceleration, braking or turning (abt) force to the trailer?" The answer is (1. ) in the case of the 5th wheel arrangement, at the kingpin jaws and (2. ) in the case of the gooseneck arrangement, at the gooseneck ball.



There are a couple of considerations here:



1. Because of the presence of the load plates with a 5th wheel hitch arrangement, the pin box is held in place from rotation under acceleration, braking and turning (abt). The abt forces the pin box applies to the frame where it is attached are, therefore, primarily linear shear forces. There is no "lever arm" applying torque in a 5th wheel hitch arrangement, but if someone insists on trying to make that argument, the comparable distance to be considered in a 5th wheel hitch configuration is the distance from the pin box-to-frame attachment point to the 5th wheel hitch's kingpin jaws.



2. With a gooseneck adapter, there are no mating load plates to restrain rotation; therefore, the gooseneck adapter loads the frame with a torsional (rotational) load when abt forces are applied. The effective lever arm generating torque at the pin box to 5th wheel frame welds when a gooseneck adapter is used is the distance from the pin box-to-frame attachment point to the gooseneck ball. This distance is SIGNIFICANTLY greater than the distance to the 5th wheel hitch's kingpin jaws.



Rusty

 

[pwerwagn]

The distance between the pin box and the truck bed is as irrelevent as the distance from the pin box to Jupiter. The point on the truck that's important in this comparison is the hitch coupling point (5th wheel jaws or gooseneck ball) that couples the truck to the trailer. That's the point where the truck applies force to the trailer and vice versa. In a structural analysis, the 5th wheel hitch is considered to be part of the TRUCK, not the trailer. The appropriate question is "Where does the truck apply acceleration, braking or turning (abt) force to the trailer?" The answer is (1. ) in the case of the 5th wheel arrangement, at the kingpin jaws and (2. ) in the case of the gooseneck arrangement, at the gooseneck ball.



There are a couple of considerations here:



1. Because of the presence of the load plates with a 5th wheel hitch arrangement, the pin box is held in place from rotation under acceleration, braking and turning (abt). The abt forces the pin box applies to the frame where it is attached are, therefore, primarily linear shear forces. There is no "lever arm" applying torque in a 5th wheel hitch arrangement, but if someone insists on trying to make that argument, the comparable distance to be considered in a 5th wheel hitch configuration is the distance from the pin box-to-frame attachment point to the 5th wheel hitch's kingpin jaws.



2. With a gooseneck adapter, there are no mating load plates to restrain rotation; therefore, the gooseneck adapter loads the frame with a torsional (rotational) load when abt forces are applied. The effective lever arm generating torque at the pin box to 5th wheel frame welds when a gooseneck adapter is used is the distance from the pin box-to-frame attachment point to the gooseneck ball. This distance is SIGNIFICANTLY greater than the distance to the 5th wheel hitch's kingpin jaws.



Rusty

I agree completely. I have always felt the load plates on the 5th wheel hitch pretty much removes all torque from the pin box except under severe accel/decel, or binding off road once you pass the point of the hitch's pivoting capabilities.



This recently happened to my brother in laws truck (memorial weekend). The 5th wheel hitch took it all great. The pin box survived, and one member it was attached to had a few degrees of twist. They pulled the truck/trailer back over, and hooked the wrecker to the truck and towed it all as one unit back to town. Even after a roll over, the 5th wheel hitch was still strong enough to "use" (although Im not sure i would have made the choice the towing company made)...



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[Cummins12V98]

pwerwagn,

What the heck happened?

 

[pwerwagn]

It was a crazy windy day, and he said a semi passed him. He was only running ~55 because of the wind and the semi was probably doing the speed limit (75). He said as soon as the semi passed the truck started to swerve and he tried to use the trailer brakes to get it under control and it wouldnt ever straighten out. At one point it was heading towards a guard rail, which was a big drop off on the other side so he was pretty much forced to take it back left and that caused it to roll over. It wasnt very violent fortunately. They had 3 kids with them and everyone was untouched 100%.