Goose neck towing with a 4x4

[TexasDodgeRam]

I currently have a 2004. 5 4x4 and want to get a goose neck for towing a camper that I don’t have yet. I also want to get me a set of the H2 take off’s and put on my truck. Those tires are 35 and will raise my truck even higher.



So my question is would I have trouble towing a camper/goose neck with the larger tires?

If so I will probably keep the original set of tires just for towing.



The fact that I haven’t bought a camper might give me an edge. Do some campers come more equipped to handle the higher setups?

 

[Sojourner]

In stock configuration, you're already too high to tow a typical 5ver where it is level and unlikely to damage your bed rails due to limited clearance when traversing driveways and inclines without major mods to raise the 5ver coach body. If you install taller tires then you will aggravate the situation. I was faced with the same problem with my 3500 4x4 (w/ stock tire size) and 33' Hitchhiker. I was looking at raising the coach up to four inches in order to solve this problem, which I really didn't want to do because of raising the center of gravity and the overhead clearance issues of the coach. I found the Mopar part # for the rear lowering kit for my Ram on this forum and ended up lowering the rear of my truck 1 7/8" (removing the aux. leaf springs, installing shorter spacer blocks and U-bolts, and installing the shocks supplied with the kit) which solved my problem without modifying the coach. Now I have more than enough clearance between the bed rails and the nose of the coach and the coach is very close to level when dry and on the hitch. When fully loaded it is just right.



From what I understand, all 5vers are manufactured to have approximately the same hitch pin height when level, unless special ordered to accomodate a higher hitch height, such as in your case (stock height 3500 4x4 or with 35" tires over stock). (The exceptions are the 'toybox' fifth wheels, which are higher due to their applications. ) This raising of the coach is generally done by moving the axles to where the axles are under the springs rather than on top of the springs (often referred to as 'flipping the axles', but that is not a good way to describe the mod) and/or by adding 2x2 or 2x4 steel tubes on the frame where the spring shackles mount and re-mounting the spring shackles. In the case of my Hitchhiker, the axles were already sitting on top of the springs so the only option I had was to weld the steel tubes into place, permanently altering the coach.



IMO, it is really not a good idea to raise the coach beyond moving the axles from above the springs to below the springs, which may still not solve the problems associated with a high hitch height on the truck (as in my case). I am fairly certain that there is a Mopar rear end lowering kit made for your Ram that is specifically for this purpose, a kit very similiar to the one I installed on my '01. It appears you have a choice - have a truck that is suited as a tow vehicle, or have a stock height or raised truck that causes you to have a number of i$$ues when towing a 5ver.



FWIW, I think my truck looks much better with the rear end lowered the 1 7/8", having the 'leveling' effect.

 

[y-knot]

You are doing what most on here should have, You are asking the questions before you went out and purchased anything, good job.

Yes the 35's will give you a problem. The truck already sits high and that makes it very hard to get the trailer level. You need the trailer level so the weight is evenly distributed to each of it's axles and to get the right pin weight. Raising the truck will make this almost impossible. I too have a 3500 4x4, and pull a gooseneck trailer. I would have perferred to go with a larger tire myself, but had to keep in-mind the dynamics of the trailers to be towed. I run the 255-85-16 tires and they are about two inches higher then stock. My top of ball measurment is 52", which would not allow me to tow most stock gooseneck trailers. On this last trailer, I had them make the front kick-up higher to accomidate the truck. This worked out farely well, I can get the trailer very close to level, but have to live with a bed rail clearance of only 5-6 inches. That is not alot of room, and if I had to travel in areas of extreme angles, or rough off-road areas I would hit. I think idealy you would want about 8-9 inches of clearance to travel safely. Also if your trailer has a large overhang (area from last axle to the rear of trailer) you really have to have a level trailer, that back area will drag if not on anything except flat ground. We have been looking around for another trailer, and it looks like there are several manufacturers now that offer higher then standard kick-ups, and many that have higher clearance in the rear. I have not asked about special built kick-ups, but I am sure they offer them, just might cost a bit more. Look around and inquire, this is the time to be asking questions, before the purchase.

#ad




Pretty level here, but tight on bed rail clearance



#ad

 

[TexasDodgeRam]

That is why I am considering keeping my original tires for towing only. I won’t tow that much, but want to have a good looking truck as a daily driver.



With the H2 tires and rims no lift is required so I could easily change out the tires with the old ones for towing.



Final option is to just get a bumper pull trailer, but I hear that the goose necks pull like a dream compared to the bumper pulls.



Most likely the camper will be a toy box type because I like to ride ATV’s and go hunting.



Thanks for all the reply’s so far.

 

[Sojourner]

Final option is to just get a bumper pull trailer, but I hear that the goose necks pull like a dream compared to the bumper pulls.

If you get a Hensley Arrow hitch for a bumper pull, then any bumper pull trailer will pull every bit as sweet as a 5ver or gooseneck, even a 34' triple axle Airstream, without the typical clunking of the standard fifth wheel hitch. You can find Hensley Arrow hitches on ebay from time to time selling for anything from $1,300 to $1,700.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Man. You should see my bed rails... I wouldn't go for 35's pulling a GN. And I would not get a bumper pull trailer ever unless it was a small utility or single car trailer.

 

[RMcCulloch]

In stock configuration, you're already too high to tow a typical 5ver where it is level and unlikely to damage your bed rails due to limited clearance when traversing driveways and inclines without major mods to raise the 5ver coach body.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree, here, Turbo Dawg!



Thanks, perhaps, to the amount of pin weight [as loaded], my 5er rides level and so does my truck. [Both are bone stock and I have over 7" clearance over the soft tonneau cover rails that bring the tail to 59. 75" unloaded/unhitched. ]



Most of the newer 5ers are a bit taller than their predecessors and don't have the problems that the older ones did.



Still and all, unless he's planning on using a slide-in mounted on a gooseneck trailer, it's far more likely that he'll be looking at a 5er.

 

[wtfd6]

in fifth wheel configuration you can always pull another trailer to haul the toys. we pull a 33' 5er with a 16' enclosed trailer behind it with all the toys and stuff that makes any campsite seem like home.

 

[ndurbin]

If you get a gooseneck trailer alot of them have adjustable hitches to set whatever heigth you need. 5'ers suck, ya basically have to find the camper that fits your truck or adjust the truck to fit under. Bumper-pulls don't pull to bad if you have the right hitch set-up and keep the trailer level.



Nathan

 

[Sojourner]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree, here, Turbo Dawg!



Thanks, perhaps, to the amount of pin weight [as loaded], my 5er rides level and so does my truck. [Both are bone stock and I have over 7" clearance over the soft tonneau cover rails that bring the tail to 59. 75" unloaded/unhitched. ]



Most of the newer 5ers are a bit taller than their predecessors and don't have the problems that the older ones did.



Still and all, unless he's planning on using a slide-in mounted on a gooseneck trailer, it's far more likely that he'll be looking at a 5er.

My mistake. I was basing my comments on my own experience with my '01 and my 7 y. o. 5ver. When I was talking to the parts dept. and the service manager of the local st*aler, they were unfamiliar with a lowering kit for my 2nd gen. , but they said, "We've sold and installed lowering kits for (3G) 4x4 1Ts - but we can't help you with your '01. " I had to furnish them the part # for a lowering kit for my truck in order for them to locate one.



I just talked to a Nuwa (Hitchhiker) engineer about some unrelated suspension issues and I asked him about the hitch pin height coaches. He said that on average their current manufacture of their later model larger hi-profile hitch pin height is two inches higher than the height on my coach, so you are right that the manufacturers have made adjustments for this.



IMO, the best thing for someone to do is decide which hitch system they intend to use (until I install a flatbed I'm using a Reese 16K because it came with the coach), then go around to the RV dealers and see what suits your needs by hitching up and seeing how the package sits when loaded on the hitch. And there is always the raising the coach option, if that works for you.

 

[RustyJC]

I currently have a 2004. 5 4x4 and want to get a goose neck for towing a camper that I don’t have yet.

You aren't, by any chance, planning to buy a 5th wheel RV and use a gooseneck adapter on the RV's pin box to connect it to a gooseneck hitch in the truck, are you? That's a big no-no insofar as the 5th wheel frame is concerned. A 5th wheel frame isn't built to handle the increased stresses imposed by the gooseneck adapter, and failures of the pin box to frame welds or other frame failures in the area of the pin box are relatively commonplace. It's not worth tearing up a new 5th wheel.



If you want a gooseneck hitch and want to tow a 5th wheel, I'd suggest using the B&W Turnoverball gooseneck with their companion 5th wheel RV hitch. On the other hand, a few 5th wheel RV manufacturers will build a frame suitable for gooseneck use on a special order basis.



Rusty

 

[CLAYTON]

I have a 03 2500 HO 4x4 with 315's and and have no problem towing my 5th wheel. Even with air bags to raise the back end up. I have had to clearance issues what so ever.

 

[WNowlan]

I pull a 35' GN horse trailer and I have a 3500 4X4 QC SWB. The clearance problems are more with the LWB. I do believe you can lower the rear by taking the spacers out of the rear and get the tires on that you want.



My Horse Trailer is a 2000 4 Star.

 

[TexasDodgeRam]

My plan is to get me a good 5th wheel and have it converted to pull as a goose neck. No adapater just a straight conversion. Are you saying that is a bad idea Rusty?



I don't much care for the bulky 5th wheel set up. It will eat up most of what little space my short bed has.



As for the ball I plan to get the Uni Goose ball.



Again thanks for all the replys.

 

[ndurbin]

The 5th wheel frames aren't built to handle the extra stress the gooseneck conversion puts on them. The braces for the neck of the trailer aren't strong enough if I remember right.



Nathan

 

[TexasDodgeRam]

The 5th wheel frames aren't built to handle the extra stress the gooseneck conversion puts on them. The braces for the neck of the trailer aren't strong enough if I remember right.



Nathan

If it can't handle the stress that is fine. The fact that I haven't bought the camper yet gives me the advantage to get one built with the goose neck from the factory or find one on the lot built that way.



Either way I want to end up with a goose neck over a 5th.

 

[RustyJC]

My plan is to get me a good 5th wheel and have it converted to pull as a goose neck. No adapater just a straight conversion. Are you saying that is a bad idea Rusty?

That's precisely what I'm saying. Unless the conversion modifies the entire front section of the 5th wheel frame to provide the material cross sectional areas, gusseting, etc. of a gooseneck design, the 5th wheel frame will likely fail, especially if you're going to be pulling it off-road.



Rusty

 

[Sojourner]

Before you purchase anything, whether it is one you intend to have converted or whether it is one that someone else converted from fifth wheel to gooseneck, it is critical to contact the manufacturer of the particular trailer involved and ask them if it is advisable to do so. I think you will find that nearly all (if not all) fifth wheel RV manufacturers who have many years of experience manufacturing fifth wheel trailers will strongly advise against converting to a gooseneck hitch.



I suggest you go to the rv.net forums and post the question (or do a search) as to whether or not to convert to a gooseneck and see what kind of responses you get.



I like a gooseneck over a fifth wheel hitch, but I wouldn't risk the potential damage$ due to a failure of a conversion on a RV.



Another way of getting what you want is to have a custom made to order gooseneck trailer which you convert to a RV/toybox. That way you can get it exactly like you want it.

 

[y-knot]

That is what I did to get the gooseneck hitch I wanted (needed), and to avoid all the issues of compatibility. There are many trailer manufacturers now that offer this custom service, the ideal caught on very fast and originated in the western states where many take to the dunes and need room for there toys as well as an area for themselves. Do a quick search and you will find several that offer very nice trailers that can be built to your specification, all that is needed is an imagination and money. There are even many well know conventional trailer manufacturers offering "Toy box" trailers now, only they do not take into consideration todays higher trucks and also only offer them in a fifth wheel version.

The gooseneck hitch has many advantages over the fifth wheel. If is a more compact design, takes less room in the truck bed, offers more freedom of movement, is adjustable, does not have a large greasy plate in the bed, and can be made to accommodate short bed trucks (Kodiak).

The custom trailer also has many benefits, you can get it exactly like you want. There are pages of options to choose from, and even those can be modified to your liking. They do however tend to get pricey, it about like ordering a truck vs buying it off the lot. But I have always like the trucks I ordered much better then the one bought off the lot, they feel more like yours and are somehow special.

 

[ntillm01]

Some how this thread turned into a gooseneck adapter discussion, but it is an interesting topic that many seem to be interested in. I run one and like it so far, but that's just me.



My advice: Do what you are doing and research the heck out of what you are after and you'll find a solution that fits your needs. Rv.net has some interesting threads out there about it, seems like I see the question pop up about once a week. You may be surprised at what you find.



As far as the height, research that as well. I have read that some manufacturers are putting suspensions on now with frame brackets that have multiple holes in them. Thus allowing the springs to be bolted in at different ride heights to suit the various tow vehicle heights. Personnaly, I like every thing lower, but I think as long as you don't go crazy with the lift on the camper, you'll have something that works. Maybe you could put 35's on the camper?