got boost?

[BushWakr - RIP]

Mgrant



Please, please put your pyro pre-turbo. I just had mine moved after being convinced to do so, and boy am I glad I did.

Previously (post-turbo) running 22-25 psi boost I was seeing about 750*F max EGT if I did a couple Bonsai runs for fun.

Well the same run now, with pyro PRE-TURBO shows 1100*F :--)





I can tell you the gauge responds like crazy

This is my latest "soap-box issue" so be patient cause I'm a real believer now!!!

You really need to have some instruments. I see you've gotten that suggestion already so I'll leave it alone.

You can go to the BD 180 HP injectors for a nice jump in power and fairly clean. This will reduce pump load. If you really want some good results, and lots of room to spare for potential, go with the POD's. I got mine from Piers at PDR and we seem to have ironed out the smoke issue. I'm in the 'test to confirm stage' at the moment but all looks good so far. We're below zero tonite and I'm leaving the truck un-plugged to test for real 'cold start' smoke tomorrow.

Timing for the POD (Lucas) injectors seems to be best around 15* without resulting in any major clatter/engine knock. If you use the POD injectors start with the 'medium thickness" washers. I think they're . 040" thousands. They come in . 020, . 040, . 060 thou.

I had the . 060, and that seems to have been the smoke cause.

I have the 16cm housing and I'm debating my decision to go to the 14cm N/W. I want to make sure I'm not going to have higher EGT's by changing.



Good luck.



Regards,Bob

 

[Mgrant]

Hi AGAIN,

I forgot to mention under my mods that I do have a guage set, both Isspro Boost and post turbo pyrometer mounted in the BD brake port. (Sorry, my bad) As a professional truck driver, I would have rathered put it in pre turbo, but the guage was color calibrated for post temps and I picked it up for nearly nothing. I also considered the fact that I've seen a few trucks with munched turbos caused by the thermocouplers comming apart and making mush out of turbine blades. One particular engine (Big cam II 400) wound up needing new valves anyway cause with the turbo gone, while pulling a grade, it didn't take long for EGTs to skyrocket. Before the driver knew what happened, it was too late. But I suspect that truck was turned up anyway. As far as my temps being 900*, that's a base-line established at low RPM and lugging conditons(NOT IDEAL), which is the bottom of the caution range on my particular guage. The way I like to pull my engine, higher RPM and 850* max at 14 psi. The higher, free reving engine with boost to spare, lower the EGTs. But one also must remember, the higher the boost, the more the differential temps before and after the turbo will be, 10 degrees for every PSI. At: http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/turbo_faq.htm is a small chart referring to max EGTs and I do remember reading an article written by Cummins about EGTs that seem pretty close to the chart. They had said max post turbo, 850* continous, 950* intermittent and pre turbo as being 1150* continous and 1250* intermittent. Granted, post turbo max temps will fluctuate due to changing boosts and pulling conditons, but I try to stay below 850 and downshift when the guage gets too high. I've driven lots of different engines with EGT guages and 850 max post turbo temps seems to be the norm for most stock inline diesels, even of different makes. I would still rather have the pre-turbo guage, but after getting a good idea of what my post guage is reading and with it's current set-up it's something I can live with. If I ever do turn it up, I'd would probably move it then, but I'd still be leary of thermocouplers comming apart. Too bad that one can't mount on of those temp readers and aim it somewhere on the manifold and have a digital readout display inside the cab. Anyway, thanks for the input. Let's see how long we can keep this thread going!



Mike

 

[Old Smoky]

Oh boy, where to start? Well, I took Old Smoky to the shop at school this week. The plan was to install a 16cm2 turbine housing, and advance the timing to 1. 5mm. I pulled the turbo off and found the intake, turbo, and intercooler tubes, coated with dirt! Both instructors, who have been diesel technicians for over 50 years combined, said they didn’t know how the engine is still running. They said it should be dusted (it only takes a tablespoon to a cup of dust, to dust an engine). I removed the compressor housing and cleaned it. I also cleaned the intercooler tubes and air filter ducting. After that, I filled the intercooler with Simple Green let it soak for about an hour. I then flushed it with hot water for about half an hour. Quite a bit of dirt came out. Since the intake manifold was quite clean, the interfilter, I mean intercooler, must have trapped most of the dirt. I also cleaned the outside, which was caked in mud, and presser tested it.



The same day a big wig from Baldwin filtration gave a presentation. When he saw my filter, and the dust, he couldn’t believe that it was running (and quite well I might add). He said he would never put a K&N on a diesel pickup, and this is why. Both instructors agreed that K&N filters are not meant to be on diesel pickups; they suck (create a vacuum) too much air. I was informed of a fleet of 15 power strokes that switched to K&N filters. High silica amounts showed up in the next SOS (scheduled oil sampling) after the switch. They switched back to paper filters and everything was ok.



After I got everything cleaned up and reinstalled, I took it for a test run. There was a real difference. The smaller turbine housing would up faster, and less restriction in the intercooler allowed for an additional 4 psi boost, combined. Maybe more boost, I just tested it around town.



The next day we where working on cooling systems. The instructor thought it would be a good idea to test my cooling system since my rig was in the shop. We found that the coolant had almost no SCAs, and was very low on nitrates and phosphates. It also was a bit too acidic. So basically, my coolant was no good at all. There is nothing like public humiliation, twice in two days. I drained and flushed the system. Then added CAT long life formula. This is really good stuff. It is an organic ethylene glycol, the same thing that Texaco sells for Cummins, but cheaper. This coolant is good almost forever, and is good to –37 F. It does require a booster at about 150,000miles, and should be periodically checked.



I will take an oil sample and have it analyzed, to see if there has been any damage done to the engine due to the dust. It will show up as abnormally high amounts of silica. I will post boost and pyro results after spring break (which is next week). I will also post the results of the oil analysis when it comes back. The timing advancement will have to wait for a couple of weeks.



If you run a K&N, take off your filter ducting and intercooler lines. Look inside them; look at the turbo compressor wheel. What do you see? Let me know.



Mike

 

[Lil' Dog]

The Frods and 94 and up CTD's use a brick type filter and K&N are known to have not enough gasket to seal properly. This will allow leakage around the filter and hense the high Si levels.



My system is clean as a whisle, so was my 89 with 250,000 Miles on it. I had to remove the piping on the 89 for something, can't recall but it was clean as was the pre-heater.



Same for the 93 so far, clean, exept the filter I took out you could grow potatoes in, so I have already gone through, but not the intercooler flush.



Our K&N filters cannot be compared to the Frods or new CTD as we have the cylinder with a better seal. You will find with both the brick (installed properly) and the cylinder, there are many folk here with clean Oil analysis results to justify. .



J-eh

 

[nascar mark]

I have been using a K&N since 93 with no problems. Clean intake,compressor wheel etc. Just service FILTER every 50,000 and they will last a life time.

 

[drives mopars]

boost

38 to 40



on a cold day

 

[JLEONARD]

Pulled my filter housing apart yesterday and looked in the hose and turbo intake.

It was clean..... no signs (to me)of ingesting contamination due to the K & N filter.

It has been on the truck for about 6 months and 4 K miles. I don't normally drive in a dusty environment.

Also looked closely at the way the filter is set up in my truck... it looks like the filter seals pretty well in the housing. I don't see how contamination can get around the filter... thru maybe, but not around.

I also added some "flow improvers" to my airbox. (I don't like to use the phrase swiss cheese). I will see how that affects performance and let you know.

 

[Old Smoky]

What a difference

I drove the old pickup about 1300 miles over the past week. It runs great. Installing the 16cm2 turbine housing, flushing the intercooler, and making a few pump adjustments really made a difference. Boost now reaches 23 psi (from 13psi), and EGT's top out at 1100 degrees. I am advancing the timing to 1. 5mm in about two weeks.



Thanks everyone for your input. You guys are very helpful.

 

[Mgrant]

Sounds good Old Smoky!



I'm curious, how many turns of the power screw did you make? I'm getting 19 PSI max with 16 cm housing, but my power screw is still at stock with a little lightening of the aneroid. I've been thinking about turning it a bit, but I'm cautious about stressing the pump, not to mention the driveline and the Getrag. BTW, how did your rubber intercooler hoses look? Mine started to crack at 125,000 miles and the Dodge dealer wanted $90 for a new set! So a call to House of Hose in Spokane yielded a high temp, high pressure hose at $15 a foot. Also, did you notice that the ports going into the 16cm housing seem slightly smaller than the ports comming out of the manifold? Mine was, and I'm thinking about port matching them to the exhaust manifold the next time I take the turbo off, but I want to make sure that there isn't a reason why they are smaller first before I make a mistake.



Mike



92 W250 4X4 Gooseneck puller. Mods so far: 16 cm hotend, Isspro guages, BD Brake with heavy valve springs, cool sounding glasspack, Boregson Steering shaft.

 

[roadhawg]

Hello fellas,



I've been lurking for many months and finally feel the need to reply. I have modified my truck for 7 years and keep learning more. I have been enjoying all of your comments and now want to use my findings. I did all that nascar Mark has done to his pump and took it a few steps further. The bolts that hold the pump in place are in slotted eyes. I have rotated all the way, until they are bottomed out. Therefore, my timing is advanced so far, so there is no numerical value. Also, under the diaphram, the neopreen washer is too thick. Look at the pin travel on the ecentric rod. If the pin doesn't go to the deepest point, then the washer needs to be modified. I have made mine about half of its thickness.



My truck jumps when throttle is lightly depressed!! Fun to drive and it still gets 19 1/2 mpg. I can completely soot following cars and create a standstill (do not try by the police station, as there may be repercussions).

 

[JLEONARD]

16 cm housing rocks!

Installed my 16 cm housing this morning

As Old Smokey said... . what a difference!

Also turned in the screw for the low boost fuel delivery as per the instructions from Geno's. Tried to go 1 full turn, but there was a little black smoke when taking off from a stop or when nailing it at low rpm. Ended up with 3/4 turn. . just a trace of smoke when I nail it at low rpm now. Feels good.

The truck has very ,very little turbo lag now. Before in 5th, the boost wouldn't start to come in untill about 50/55 mph... now it starts at about 35/40 mph. Also I haven't met a hill yet in my test drives today that I couldn't accelerate up in 5th gear starting at 35.

I only gained 1 lb of boost ... from 23 to 24 psi... but before I had to be going almost 90 to get the 23... . now I can reach max boost at about 70.

Not much difference in EGTs.

Turbo whine is much more pronounced. The pitch changed as well..... wife says it sounds like a Skill saw!! I like it!

 

[Old Smoky]

Mgrant

My full load full delivery screw is turned in about 1 turn. The aneroid is turned halfway between stock and max. No smoke if driven lightly, some smoke at WOT. I don't have rubber intercooler hoses, they are steele. So, they look great. I didn't notice that the ports in the turbine housing where smaller than the ports on the exhaust manifold. Good eye!



roadhawg

I also sanded the washer down on the aneroid. It is aprox. 1/2 its origional thickness. The pin now rides to the deepest point.



JLEONARD

Bye bye turbo lag! Well, 99% of it anyway. Those 21cm2 housings are way to big.



By the way, I averaged 22mpg on my last trip. Not bad for having the areodynamics of a brick!

 

[Mgrant]

Hi All!



Well, I got bored today and started tinkering under the hood of Big Blue. Guess what, there was a miss match! One of the ports on the Holset 16cm housing, had an 1/8" overlap and the other had the same amount plus a 1/4" gap bridged across one corner of the port. I would think that this could disrupt the exhaust pulses and reduce scavenging. So out came the head porting tool and a 1/2 hour later, we have nice, rounded port entries. On a short test drive, it seemed to accelerate to the governor much faster and has quicker boost rise to max. I could not determine if I gained anymore boost, since I couldn't put it under a steady load, but the truck seemed to have better throttle response with less low speed smoke. BTW, the rubber intercooler connections I was referring to connect my steel hoses to the intercooler, turbo, and intake elbow. One of them developed a crack and I knew that it wouldn't be long before I had a problem. My truck has four all together and I can't believe Lee Dinges wanted $90 for replacements! House of Hose has a reinforced hose, supposedly good for 350 degrees and 100+psi for $15 per foot.



Mike

 

[roadhawg]

Old Smoky



I had a set of 185s in for about a year and i could get about 31#. It wasnt untill i had a set of 370 HP for the 2nd gen trucks built {had to do it twice to get them right} that i made over 40# of boost. At first the opening pressure was 260 bar and the truck felt like it had retarded timeing so i pulled them out and put 185s back in . We lowered the opening pressure to 3400lbs put them back in

 

[JLEONARD]

Smokey,

I had a 18 cm housing..... but you're right... bye bye turbo lag.

Mike,

I also noticed that the gasket did not match the turbo inlet. I got out the dremel and spent 1/2 hour or so grinding open the new housing..... did some polishing while I was at it.

I'm sure that helped somewhat.



I also noticed after a few days of driving with the new set-up that my EGTs are lower now.