got boost?

[nascar mark]

Re: Re: Turned up Pump?

Originally posted by Lil' Dog





The only way to get 30 psi is with either the 185's or the POD's. Stock injectors will not flow for 30 psi boost, I am here to testify.



I have to call this one out... . sorry. :-{}



J-eh

Hi,Sorry i'm a new member but must say it is posible to flow 30# with stock injectors even with stock self turned up pump. I have been self tuning for years on my 93 and was geting 30# unloaded with no problem. Just my 2 bits.

 

[Old Smoky]

bflood

Thanks for the info. It cleared some things up.



Keeno

I'm sorry to say that the turbine housing is still riding shotgun. It is being installed, and the timing advanced, early next week. I will post the results of the modiycations after they have been made.



nasscar mark

How do you get 30psi with stock injectors?



Mike

 

[Lil' Dog]

Originally posted by Old Smoky

nasscar mark

How do you get 30psi with stock injectors?



Mike

Yes, please tell all of us how. I would love to get 30 Psi out of this pump but it will not happen. My 89 would not either so if you know about it, then enlighten all of us and we won't need to buy injectors anymore...





There is a reason for the POD's, PW's and 185's out there and its not for looks... LOL



J-eh



Seems like more people think I am full of it, but they have real trucks getting huge boost #'s stock. . Boost numbers

 

[Old Smoky]

Lil' Dog



It looks like our engines are setup about the same. You are making 17-18psi, and I am making 16. Could this just be a slight difference in how our pumps have been turned up? I found out from dodgeram.org that a stock 91-92. 5 should be making 15-19psi. One would guess more boost with pump adjustments. Do you think I could have a leak or something? Or, should I just quit worrying about it, it's close enough?



Mike

 

[Lil' Dog]

Well thats what I am worried about. . Should I be concerned??



I have maxxed out the pump and we are in the same ballpark. I tightened all my clamps, and cleaned the heating grid so my gaskets are new there. Does my intercooler have hole in it??? I doubt it as there was no leakage noticed during the dyno run.



So where do we go from here?????



J-eh

 

[Old Smoky]

I don't know buddy. I have also checked my clamps to be sure that they are tight, and they are. If you think of anything, be sure to let me know.



Mike

 

[nascar mark]

Sorry guy's. Having problems on my end. Every time i typed out a long detailed reply a message said i wasn't signed in but on the screen it said i was in.

 

[nascar mark]

Here goes. First make sure idle screw is backed all the way out as far as possible and grind down with dremmel to body of pump if necessary as with mine. Move diapham prick on pump to 12. You know how to take collar off power screw and turn. Back out full trottle screw almost all the way. You might wonder why. It's needed for the mods as you will see. Next disconnect threaded linkage from throttle to pump. Adjust later on. Bend tab were pump linkage touches tab at full trottle screw so it travels too max. When done on mine I had to bend fuel line also slightly as the pump linkage touched and would not allow full travel. Next pull of throttle linkage bracket and slot out the 2 large 3/8 holes so bracket can move forword closer to pump so theaded linkage will let you have low idle(775)runs nice and also allows max travel off pump linkage. Next advance pump timing any where you would like. Mine is max advance. Runs great and helps lower egt's as they would easy hit 1500* with thess mods. Hook threaded linkage back up and adjust. This will give you max pump output. Take test ride and adjust star wheel and smoke screw on ride for smoke. This set up would allow me to lay down 50' of posi with my old stock transmission. INJOY!!!

 

[Old Smoky]

So that's how you do it. That is unlike anything I have ever heard before. Too bad about the bending and grinding. 50 feet of rubber... ... .

 

[Excessive Force]

MORE BOOST NUMBERS

30# no problem... '92 W250, pump turned up 1. 5 turns + Diaphragm turned 90degrees + star wheel turned down . 75 turns = 30# and 700 degrees on pyro at 60 mph . THEN added a" homemade" ram air in grille = 31# and 600 on pyro. THEN..... LUCAS INJECTORS..... = 41# BOOST... ... ... ... ... ... PYRO... ... actually if you avoid taking off at WOT from the stop signs and going through the gears like a mad man the EGT's stay manageable. about 600 at cruising speed. All i can say is i must have bought a good one because this thing really goes !!:--)

 

[Old Smoky]

Well, you sure made that sound easy. Why doesn't it work that way with mine? Lucky dog.

 

[rowland]

boost numbers

Just thought I would chip on the boost numbers issue. I am currently getting 29 psi under load with the stock injectors. Truck is a non-intercooled '89 with the 16 cm housing and one turn on the power screw. No smoke and running on straight #1 diesel (in Alaska) with stock airbox. EGTs max out at close to 1200.



With a little tinkering I should think that it would be easy to squeeze a little more out of it. However it is worth noteing that I am only able to get these numbers with a load in bed and a good hill. I can't get much more than 20 - 23 psi on the level.



Just my two bits.



I. Rowland



PS. I was able to get 20 psi w/ just the housing and no other adjustments.

 

[Excessive Force]

I forgot to mention that i think i still have the 18cm housing on. I wonder what a non wastegated 14cm would do for me,as i hate to lose any of the current performance... . CAN'T WAIT TO DYNO. .

 

[Lil' Dog]

I guess it comes down to the simple fact that I do not want the engine to go over 3000 Rpm loaded or Unloaded for that matter.



The shop I went to adjusted the full throttle stop when they did the timing and set it to the factory 2900 Rpm level. When I was on the dyno with no load, The governor was at 2850 in 4th gear.



As for the idle stop adjustment, I had the screw all the way out and the internal pump stop would hold the Rpms high.



Also I realize that I am taking years of life off of the pump with what I have done, so Injectors are in the near future.





If thats what it takes with stock injectors, the I am just getting POD's and a housing instead. . I am not willing to spin the engine into oblivion... :-{}



J-eh

 

[Power Wagon]

I second the "power through torque" concept.



Our turbo and air systems are a little less capable than those on the later trucks. Speed - as in RPM - alone will raise the boost numbers due to restriction, but if you can achieve 1500 on your pyro, then you're burning fuel as it is exiting the engine... This would mean, that with the stock injectors you are injecting fuel for many degrees of crankshaft rotation. Changing injectors would dramatically reduce the # of degrees of rotation required to get the same amount of fuel... all without as much strain on your pump. And, the faster your engine runs, the less efficient it is as an "air" pump, meaning you're getting less and less air per injection of fuel, even if the boost goes up.



I'll try to get a video of my truck again, to show how quick the boost comes in... It's very quick. I fully expect that when I get done, my truck will be capable of lighting the tires, running pretty quick for quarter mile times, at a terminal speed of about 85 - 90, all without ever producing more than a mild haze out the tailpipe.



BTW, the smoke coming out at the high end of your rpm range... you may be able to clear it up, at least some, by moving the timing ahead just a little. That should improve your power, too.

 

[nascar mark]

Hi Lil Dog,

You don't have too reach 3000 rpm's to reach 30#. I meant that the engine will turn that with this set up as when stock from factory with auto in gear it would only turn 2350. with full load scew adjusted it would turn 2800. with my set up 3100+.

Believe me you are flying at 3000 in o. d. 100mph+



Old Smoky,

50' with stock transmission. Haven't tried with new/rebuilt from DTT & 91%tc & vb with p. o. d's as Bill said break in is 1000 miles.

I'll have Bill install 92%tc at that time as I can run trough the 91% easily and make it shift harder at the same time. I destroyed my stock turned up transmission so I had the best build me one.

 

[hdm48]

OK, just as powerwagon said, too much fuel and you dump it out the pipe. You can make all the boost you want but if the engine can't breath it, it's just heat.

What you need to do at this point is improve the engines ability to breath. As in porting the head, improving the intake system, and most of all, a better exhaust. If you can let it breath it will make power without burning itself up.

I can get 80hp out of a 250C. C. two stroke engine that will live untill the rings wear out. How? By letting it breath. PLus keeping the timing right and the jetting right. Too much fuel and you drop power fast. But breathing is everything. And the same thing applies to our diesels.

 

[nascar mark]

Exhaust isn't the problem as i built a special 3 1/2" aluimicoat pipe which is as striaght as possible and a special built tru muffler that is used on hi hp engines such as marine etc. Its just a large pipe with a 3 clover leaf flange at either end which directs the sound waves too bounce off each other to cancel out some sound. No insulation or baffels. You can almost stick your arm tru. Have you seen any jet sprint boats. Same design.



The head work would be nice. $$$$$ A new turbo down the road or twin set up. $$$$$ You are right on the intake. As i have been throwing around some idea's in my head about ram air. I have swiss cheesed the housing which helped as the air doesn't get too warm here except for 3 months of the year. Time will tell.

 

[Mgrant]

HI ALL!

I have a question for everyone concerning stock injector and pump settings. This looks like a good thread with lots of experienced memebers. I have a 92. 5 intercooled truck and I'm looking for experiences on how far the full power screw can be turned before pump life becomes a concern. I installed the 16 cm housing one afternoon and had the pump aneroid adjusted by Idaho Diesel Tech, for more fuel at lower boost. When I asked about the full load power screw, they recommended not turning it and they turned up the fuel via the aneroid instead, which they claim would yield an additional 15% full load fuel. Max boost is about 18-19 psi near the gonvernor and 13-15 (Depending on fuel blends and temperature) at 60mph in 5th gear and smokes very little, except if being lugged. Max EGT is 900 after turbo on a very hot day. I have no need for additional power for the moment, but I might if I ever get passed by a brand X. That's my concern, remembering what Idaho Diesel said about the VE pump power screw. Would installing larger injectors be a wiser choice? What is a good injector these days, without getting too crazy and smoking out the valley?



Thanks!

92. 5 W250, 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 54 gear. Mods thus far: 16 cm housing, BD Brake with heavy valve springs, and a large, cool sounding glasspack.

 

[AlK]

Mgrant,

Pump adjustment vs Injectors. The pump in the first gen trucks is one of the weaker links and they are not cheap. Personally I would not touch the pump but would go with some new injectors. However, before you get new injectors invest in a set of guages (Pyro & Boost). You don't want injectors unless you know the temperature in your engine - you dont want to cook the engine. As far as injectors most first gen guys run either the PW's (Bosh) or the POD's (Lucas). With the change in injectors you should have the timing change. With these couple of changes you will be surprised how your truck will respond.

---

Al