2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Got new wheels and death wobble?

[azcummins]

Just a tip for any of you who might have aftermarket wheels and a problem with your front end wobbling...



After putting on my Alcoa wheels last month, my truck would shake above 40 mph. It could be driven safely, but it sure got old on long trips. According to a TDR member, the problem is that the holes on the wheel for the studs is a lot bigger than the studs themselves. This allows the studs to not be centered in the holes, effectively creating an off balance wheel and therefore wobble.



The fix sounds easy: Center the wheel on the studs. Not hard if you can hold up a wheel and tire with enough precision to line up 8 studs in 8 holes. The easier fix is to get 2 lug nuts with tapered ends. Hold the wheel off the studs and drive your tapered studs in. The taper will automatically center the wheel for you! Then put on your regular lug nuts replacing the tapered ones last. End of off centered wheel and wobble.



Sorry this is a bit long, but it made a HUGE difference on my truck.

 

[Thomas]

Are you saying that the lug nuts that you drive with don't have a taper and that the holes in the rims are larger than the studs?



Sounds scary to me.

 

[azcummins]

that's right! The kit that came with my Alcoa wheels included lug nuts with a washer on the back of them, but no taper. My stock ones were the same way.

 

[juicedcummins]

How long since you changed the trackbar?

My parts are in monday am. That is how mine feels with 2 tie-rods out and a real bad track bar.

Those nuts should have a cone to centre them on the rim.

Got any pics of your rig with the rims on?

 

[DKGross]

Double check the lug nuts

I used to work for Goodyear, yes it was long time ago and all that since is was my college job. My job was to change tires on anything and everything, go-carts to tractors. Most were cars, pickups and usually at least one big rig per week. Even the custom wheels with oblong holes for a special washer for the different size bolt patterns had tapered lug nuts. Since then I have seen long lug nuts that fit deep inside the wheel were tapered.



So, I would have to agree with Thomas. This just does not sound natural. Possible if the wheels were exact fit but...



OK, I looked up Alcoa wheels and lug nuts via a search and found the following site.



http://www.gmcmotorhome.com/tech/alcoa_wheels/



Make sure your wheel pattern on the wheels is an exact fit. If I remember correctly the pattern is slightly different on the big three 8 bolt wheels.



Like I wrote above there was a wheel manufacturer that made wheels with oblong bolt holes so they would fit multiple mfg patterns. But, there were special washer with tapered lug nut so they could be snugged up to prevent the problem you wrote about.



Please keep us posted on this. I am curious.



BTW, what part of Colorado are you in?

 

[DKGross]

Check Alcoa for recalls

azcummins,



After I posted my first reply I continued to look at Alcoa wheels and found this site. If the wheels you are talking about have this part number you might have a problem.



http://www.alcoawheels.com/maint/recall.asp

 

[Thomas]

If your wheels are hub-centered, your installation routine with the two tapered nuts is not needed to center the wheel.

 

[azcummins]

thanks guys for all the info.



BTW... the recall doesn't apply to me as my wheels were made this year. Thanks for looking out though.



Also- I figure my track bar is ok b/c the wobble is gone and the truck feels tighter now than before when I had steel wheels.



Finally - wheels pics are here:

Wheels



I still have the original lug nuts from my steel wheels and they don't have a taper on them either. That makes sense though b/c the steel wheels fit tight. My Alcoa's have a lot of room (~. 5cm) all the way around the stud. I have seen some aftermarket wheels (Ultra I think) that have the long lug nuts like I used from my buddies rig. I don't know why Alcoa went with the nut and washer. I wish they'd tell people about the problem I had b/c they could go chasing another problem when all it is a wheel problem.

 

[DKGross]

azcummins

Nice looking rig all the way around. It does sound like a sleave would help. There is so much information on the Alcoa site and there are pictures of a set of what looks like something for a wheel adapaters.



At this point it might be worth a call this week to Alcoa to see if you got all the parts you are supposed to have. I have seen their special lugs nuts with attached spinning washers on their site.



Something just does not add up on this.



Are you going to keep the tapered lug nuts with you in case of a tire change on the road?



BTW, good information post to start this.



Dave

 

[azcummins]

Dave-

I'll probably buy 2 tapered nut so I can have them to change tires. Not that pricey and for sure worth it.



I'll get on the Alcoa site and look around some. Every dodge in town here (Fort Collins, CO) has the lug nuts with spinning washers though so I guess it is an Alcoa things. I'll look into it.



Thanks for all the advice.

 

[Dodge-Tech]

It all makes sense now. Az's truck is a 3500, (dually). The factory wheels are hub-centered. Therefore the factory lugnuts have no taper, with a built in washer on the nut. A factory 2500 has tapered seat lugnuts.

 

[azcummins]

Opps! guess I should have mentioned that. I forgot my signature isn't there anymore...

 

[DKGross]

Still something left to verify

azcummins,



With the information from Dodge-Tech it brings up the question since your wheels are hub centered and you have slippage it now sounds like the hub diameter on the wheel is larger than it should be. Could be you have the wrong wheels for your rig.



As I said it has been a long time since I spun a lug wrench for money so things have changed. But that said the wheels should fit to prevent any slippage in relation to the lug nuts. This is because there is no way to tighten the lug nuts enough to prevent the weight of a vehicle from moving the wheel a little. A real safety hazard. I know about this first hand, due to an adventure I had the summer I was 16. While working on a ranch we "helped" an adult co-worker on a ranch I was working on put some different mfg wheels on his car. They mostly fit, but were not the correct wheels. The result was driving down the road, luckily a farm road, the lugs and lug nuts popped off - or should I say sounded like rifle shots. We stopped the car to find out what happened and found that each of the wheels had lost 2 or 3 studs and nuts. We walked back to the ranch house and heard about it big time.



Today I work as an analyst so I get paid to ask hard questions.



Let us know.



Dave

 

[azcummins]

Dave-

Checked the part numbers today and they matched up. They I went and read the box for the wheels and it says for Dodge 3500 made it my model year. So everything looks ok on the P/N's. Guess Discount Tire could have ordered me the wrong kit # (kit was the lugs, lug nut covers, center caps) but I was there when they were on the phone with Alcoa.



Dunno if Alcoa is building their wheels now to fit many types of trucks for one P/N, but I have the right ones.

 

[DKGross]

azcummins - you have done your research

Sounds like everything is correct.



I expect you will keep us posted if anything develops.



And you do have a good looking rig.



Are you in FC?



Dave

 

[stacerbob]

It means nothing that the stud holes are a little bigger than the studs! As long as you have the right wheels they center on the hub. You haven't changed the runout (hop) by centering the stud holes. If it does you simply have the wrong wheels!