Got Smoke???

[Greenleaf]

Do y'all got smoke? Well I don't. My truck was 100% stock, till I:

Turned pump fuel screw in 1 turn after removing the collar.

(Removed screw, broke off collar, installed screw, plus one turn) No smoke. Turned AFC set screw down all the way (three plus turns) no smoke. Removed AFC top cover, removed fuel control pin and turned 60 degrees, also turned star wheel down all the way (about 2/3 turn). No smoke.



I need help to clear up some misconceptions. I'd like to get fast/positive throttle response. Well, I have that. Always have. I believe if I'm getting smoke at take off I'm getting my quick and positive throttle response. Why no smoke? I'd like some!



I've read that the AFC set screw can be screwed down for more smoke. Didn't work. I've read that the star wheel should be down all the way to obtain max fuel delivery with less boost. It is already down, only had to turn it about 2/3rd. Some guys are running it at the top. Wouldn't this decrease fuel delivery at take off until boost picks up? What's up with the DD fuel pin? is this for use along with different (high output) turbos and high h. p. injectors? Couldn't you just turn the pin a bit to gain max fuel at take off? I didn't understand much of what I read about the DD fuel pin. (My pin is a 70H I believe. )



Please help clear up some misconceptions and allow me to obtain smoke. Don't need alot. Some would be nice. right?



Confused in Ohio

 

[formula]

Forget about the DD fuel pin..... it's a POS and does not work. You can get more fuel with your stock control cone. How much smoke do you want? Some visible smoke upon acceleration? A good haze? Somewhat dense and black? Or do you want the super eclipse death cloud?



Ok, ok, seriously though, smoke is unburned fuel. To get the extra fuel you need to add it with very little boost or get some bigger injectors. The factory injectors are really limited in the amount of fuel they can flow. So, bigger ones would be the best route if you really want to smoke.



Sean

 

[dpuckett]

Greenleaf,

YES I DO. And lots of it when I want it.

I'm just the opposite of you. I like the snappy acceleration, but want it without all the smoke. I see smoke as wasted fuel, and thus thrown away money. I see from your sig that my injectors wont fit in your engine, or I'd offer an even swap- mine will leave a CLOUD if you hit it at low rpm. AS for the DD fuel pin, it is intended to CUT smoke under low boost. WHile it will be a little doggier than the stock pin at max fuel, it has a different curve, allowing it to build boost before adding fuel. Personally, I like it. In the 93 I had, I didnt gain that much off the line, but had better staying power towing up hills, and lowered EGTs. Mileage didnt go up becasue the injectors were popping at 2800 psi. If anyone has a DD pin they would like to get rid of PM or email me. I would just like to get one that didnt get skipped in hardening.



AS for increasing smoke, go with the PODs. From whatI've read here, they flow more than any other first gen injectors (though I could be wrong). Try turning your power screw in another 1/2 turn. Take the diaphragm out of the AFC housing and make sure the "deep" side of the taper points to the front. Just turning it x-degrees wont always guarantee it is at the max. Then bottom out your set screw on top of the housing. If you still dont smoke, contact me, and we'll do an engine swap one weekend. Provided you dont have a 18 mpg engine. Mine gets 20-22 as currently set up.

 

[cerberusiam]

At one turn in on the full pwer screw you have probably just put the pump output back to what it was new. Now about 3 turns produces a nice dense grey haze for the tailgaiting rice burner to drive in for a while. Good black smoke occurs when the screw is turned in so far you can't shut the idle down with idle screw anymore and the truck is trying to pull thru the converter at every stop light. Leaves a cloud in the intersection also.



However, all the fun is not without a price. By doing the above you have severely reduced the lifespan of your pump. At 170k and never being rebuilt, your pump is the weak link in the fuel delivery system. Not to say it won't last a long time yet, but, the generaly accepted theory is the more fuel you push thru the stock injectors reduces the life of the pump. The return springs are usually the weak spot and changing the stress after that many miles is taking a chance. Like formula said, bigger injectors = more smoke - expensive pump repairs.



The 21 cm housing is probably one reason why your not seeing much smoke at the current pump setting. The star wheel all the way down reduces the amount of boost needed to increase the fuel delivery. However, if you boost doesn't build fast enough the spring is strong enough to keep the smoke to a minimum. You need more fuel to create enough boost to feed more low boost fuel. There is a nylon washer that limits the travel of the control cone that can be shaved to add more fuel when the boost overcomes the spring. A couple thousandths off it can make a difference.



The AFC screw on the top of the housing is used for limiting the amount of white smoke at an idle which is an indication of unburned fuel in the combustion cycle. It has minimal effect on the amount of black smoke.



Hope this helps.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

:-laf :-laf ... . "... . Or do you want the super eclipse death cloud? ..... "



formula, you're killin me here buddy... . :-laf :-laf



Maybe we gotta have a whole new catagory .....



As for no smoke, are you sure you're guide pin is coming out properly??? It may be a bit sticky or not working much at all... it's the pin that rides up/down on the fuel cone... .

Pull the cone/AFC out, cycle the throttle linkage open and look inside to see if the pin pops out quick and easily. . if not, it's sticking and you're not getting full fueling.



Also, some pumps just do not respond much/at all compared to others... it's fairly well known that some refuse to be "tweaked" and just say NO... .



Be very carefull when you turn the full fuel screw right in... it starts to get hard to turn just before it "bottoms out" internally... . at/near that point you may have a run-away on your hands...

The pump will go wide open/full fuel and uncontrolled... it gets ugly from there... .

You can also (as noted above) shave the nylon washer down. Take about 1/2 it's thickness off using some 400 fine sandpaper. . just put the washer on your fingertip and go to it... it sands down fairly easy.



Bob.

 

[JLEONARD]

the super eclipse death cloud?

Sean that's great!

I could have used that last weekend... . had a durapad on my butt and all I could leave him with was a "light to medium haze" as I pulled away. (key phrase is "pulled away")

But that is adequate for the rice burner dusting and the occasional British toy convertables.....

Jay

 

[Greenleaf]

When I removed the control cone I cycled the throttle to WOT and back, the fuel control link never moved. thought it must be running to operate.



How would I free it if stuck?



While the super eclipse would look I don't need it. Enough to darken some rice when pulling away with my haze will suffice.

 

[jbolt]

Got Smoke???? Oh Ya! and more if I want BUT a few words of caution:



1. My PODs at idle haze enough to keep the windows rolled up on a hot day (good thing for max AC) and not be able to use the heater when driving in stop & go traffic in the winter.



2. The urge to use it. A few months back a group of Teenie-bopper-rudy-poo-pa-gangster types were causing mischief at a bus stop. A few in particular were tossing trash at cars. In a brief moment of weakness I threw caution to wind and held back as the car in front of me made a right turn. One foot lightly on the brakes and the other on the go pedal as I came upon the bus stop I lett’r roll. WOO HOO! Both tires lit and the bus stop vanished from view. Tires squealing, engine screaming and with a grin from ear to ear I watched from my mirror bodies scatter in every direction……. .



………. . only to be ripped from my state of ecstasy by a blue and red light emerging from the blackened air. Oh Crap!



Cop (motorcycle cop- helmet on, dark glasses, ******-off look) “license, registration & insurance please”



Me (mentally beating myself to a pulp & trying to control my bladder) “ah- yes sir”



Cop (wlks away talking on radio and comes back several minutes later and says in a most serious voice) “Do you know why I stopped you”



Me (thinking this is a trick question with my wrong answer to be followed by “please get out of the vehicle and put your hands behind your back”) Nervously I said in the most respectful voice I could muster. “yes s-s- sir” “that w-was very stupid of me”



Cop (walks away for several more minutes, again talking on radio) (patrol car rolls up behind him and the two officers talk for a while) (comes back and in a smug voice says) “yes-yes- indeed it was”



Me ((oh no here it comes))



Cop “a burned out tail light can be very dangerous and should be taken much MUCH more seriously!”



Me (WHAT!) Not sure that I heard him correctly I starred back at him with I’m sure was a total look of bewilderment.



Cop (leaning closer to my face and pulling his sunglasses down far enough I can see his eyes he gives me the slightest wink and in a whisper so quiet I could barely hear it says) “don’t let it happen again” and hands me a fix-it ticket for a fictional broken taillight.



3. (if you can believe there is more) My truck tends to belch a good puff of smoke when I start it so I try to be considerate to those parked next to me. Either waiting for them to get out or if they are sitting in the car with the windows down I will warn them.



On this particular day work was going badly and I had to race out to a job to deal with a problem. Forgetting to check my right side I hoped in a fired it up. To my horror as I backed out- not one, not two, but THREE elderly NUNS were bailing out of the smoke filled car. It was not a good day………….

 

[paccool]

Greenleaf,



I wish I could give you some of my smoke! I'm like Jbolt and try to wait until someone next to me closes the door before starting. I'm going to turn my smoke screw back down a little to see if the "super eclipse death cloud" will lighten up a little. I'm going to get a ticket one of these days when getting on the freeway before the truck is completly warmed up. It leaves a black cloud all the way down the get on ramp.



You need to get the injectors!

 

[formula]

ROFLMAO :-laf :-laf :-laf



Here's another one y'all may like



This weekend, was at my favorite nighttime hangout. It came time to leave so we all go out to our respective vehicles. I see my buddy getting into his WRX at the other end of the parking lot. So... ... as he backs out, I make my way down to his car. I pull up to his driver's window like I'm gonna get out and ask him something. Jokingly (really, I was just kidding), I position the tailpipe right at his window. To my surprise, he yells back and is shaking his fist at me, actually REQUESTING, no, DEMANDING some smoke. I'm thinking, "WTF is up with this?" Well, at that point there was only one thing to do..... so..... Left foot firmly on brake, right foot to floor... ... BWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. The "super eclipse death cloud" fills his car with soot And he actually stayed in his car to savor the smell I about peed myself I was laughing so hard. :-laf



Sean

 

[Greenleaf]

I'd like something that makes the Super Eclipse Death Cloud look like a boy scout camp fire on a warm summer night. Like when the fireman on the Southern Pacific Daylight forgets to open up the draft control to the firebox,subsequently dumping in gallons of raw fuel oil, he looses track [no pun intended] of the nine car train in tow, resulting in all passengers disembarking only to be treated for smoke inhalation.



In other words, the unsuspecting Forest ranger, merrily preparing himself a cup of Folgers high atop his perch, is abruptly called to attention when I begin my day by pointing the truck northward as I head off to work



Upon removal of the control cone again, I filled the cavity w/light oil. With engine running the link moved out slowly then popped out remainder of travel. Working it back in/out several times did nothing to free it up any more. Don't really know how it should act. Assembled with deepest portion of cone toward this pin. I'm getting some smoke now when it's hammer time. Also took the nylon washer down to 1/2 it's thickness



What would be the problem with removal of the fuel control cone thereby rendering the AFC inop? Wouldn't it allow full fueling at the instant of throttle application? Has this been tried? Many farm tractor pumps and older highway engines do not employ the use of an AFC. It's full throttle when you want it. Not when it decides its time.



So anyway, upon turning the pump's power screw in the low idle increased. I turned it down by removal of tube from intake to AFC, then used a Craftsman 10mm ignition wrench [box end] bending it 90* at [box] end. Attached needle nose locking pliers to opposite end then installed the wrench onto lock nut. I turned the screw, at opposite end of lock nut, with a little help from needle pliers to lower rpm's. Tighten lock nut, installed AFC tube.



The high [fast] speed limit screw I turned back a little [about 2 turns] At this point the throttle lever dosen't touch the stop screw. The engine hasn't blown yet, so I know it must not be wound to tight. Don't have a tach yet to determine rpm's. Do y'all gain extra rpm by only turning this screw [about 2 twists] or governor adjustments? Can't believe this screw will make much difference I'd like about 2900.



Any suggestions?





Scott

 

[formula]

Don't remove the control cone and run the engine. The housing pressure of the pump will eventually force the guide pin out of it's seal. You will then fill the AFC housing up with diesel and it will spew out of the AFC vent port.



Yes, you will up your high idle rpm and consequently, the defuel point, by backing off the high idle screw. Also, it is normal for the low idle to increase as you turn in the full load screw.



Sean

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Geezzzz... . turn my back for one minute and look what happens...

Seems only yesterday we were trying to find a way to reduce the smoke and haze... . and now... hmmmm... how things change in a day...



As for the question about freeing up the guide pin... all sorts of things have been tried...

you can squirt some WD 40 into the pin's hole and blow out with air, repeat over and over trying to cycle the throttle so the pin pops out... . if it does, use a q-tip and clean off any gummy stuff, and spray again, push it back in and keep at it...

If it's not too badly hung up, you can ususally free it up.

One method I was told of, spray the daylights outta the thing with a light lube oil then insert an air hose, plug up the top and blast some air in to push the oil past the pins O-ring.

I have not tried this myself, and am a bit concerened that it might push air bubbles into the inside of the pump, but hey, ya gotta do, what ya gotta do, right...





As for smoke, how bout this... ... it wasn't me but I was there when this happened... .



Seems this guy got a new dyno installed and they had it up and running. Well, someone who was there to do the setup and fine tuning wanted to do an opacity test to configure the exhaust collection/extraction system... .

Ok, so the truck owner removes his nice shiny 4" chrome tip ( it suffered some serious structural damage in the removal) and welds on a about 2 feet of normal alum coat steel pipe. About a foot from the end they drill a small hole for the probe to be inserted, and the truck is rolled up onto the dyno. .



The dyno operator says to the "air guy", ok, I'm going to have him do one run so you can get a feel for what to expect as far as smoke and noise when we crank one these things up..... (the "air guy" had not had the pleasure of seeing anything but ricers do runs).

Okey doke he says,... let 'er rip...



First gear nice and easy, second gear a bit more RPM's, then comes third... ... . fourth just starts to load up and the throttle goes to the floorboards... ... The truck screams to over 4000 RPM, the smoke starts to billow and in less than 10 seconds, with major dyno draw down, the entire building is GONE !!!! I mean the dark side of the moon man... ... night time in a cave for a blind man kind of dark :--) :--)

From the roof of the truck to the top of the building was instantly gonzo... ..... the black is just rolling out in wave after wave of nightime..... I darn near fell over from laughing... nearly killed me too, my emphysema all but shut me down.....



After it's all over and things quiet down, the "air guy" comes out of the blackness and says... . " hmmmm, I'm going to have to rethink this and do some upgrades..... "

The guys' face was nearly blacked out from soot... .



LMAO, I thought I was gonna choke... ... DUH !!!!!

 

[formula]

MUAAAHAHAHA



#ad

 

[paccool]

:-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf Good one Bush! hadn't had a good laugh all day till now.



Stan

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Ya formula,,,, JUST like that... . still brings tears to my eyes... .



As for removing the AFC cone assembly, what you'd have in effect is a fairly decent boost leak... .

Boost air would enter the afc housing and leak right back out the breather on the back of the pump.



hey stan, I aim to please buddy.....



For those of you with a sense of adventure why not try this one time "you gotta be kidding me" experiment.....

With your smoke screw in a few turns, and the fuel screw in near the collar, remove the afc spring and do a test drive... ... . LMAO... .

shoulda seen the smoke..... I don't forget to put that spring back anymore... . the up side is after I got from a nightmare 'round the block' drive, I found the spring still sitting beside the hood latch rattling around... whew... . close one... .





bob.

 

[JBournes]

NO SMOKE EITHER

I HAVE TURNED MY FUEL UP ABOUT 1 TURN AND CRANKED THE SMOKE SCREW DOWN A FULL 3 TURNS AS WELL. AND I STILL DONT HAVE ANY SMOKE AND DEFINATELY NOT A ECLIPSE DEATH CLOUD. I STILL LAUGH EVERYTIME I SEE THAT. BUT MY INJECTORS ARE ON THE WAY AND ALTHOUGH ALL THE SMOKE DOESNT APPEAL TO ME I DO HOPE I HAVE AN INCREASE IN POWER



JEB

 

[rkubicki]

Originally posted by Greenleaf

When I removed the control cone I cycled the throttle to WOT and back, the fuel control link never moved. thought it must be running to operate.



How would I free it if stuck?

I used anti-seize sprayed directly on the pin... Spray it, push the pin in, open the throttle so it comes back out and repeat several times... . Anti-seize with teflon works best for me - other types tend to dry out and flash off with engine heat... Also spray some on the control cone rod to keep it moving freely in the pump's housing... Don't forget to push the pin in before re-installing the control cone!



Good luck, Rob

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

The smoke screw gives you a "puff" at first throttle, then nothing after that. It gives the turbo a shot of juice to help get it spooling.

The full fuel screw sends fuel to the entire power band, from pretty much idle all the way to WOT... but... ... a larger "portion" of the increased fueling ends up in the low/low-mid range than the WOT range.

So to compensate you can spin the starwheel up more/right up and delay the onset of 'boost fuel/rate' increase since you have more going to the bottom end to begin with.

You can tweak the starwheel until you're happy with the low/mid end smoke/power and, use the smoke screw to tweak your "launch" feel.



Bob.

 

[Greenleaf]

I need injectors!..... but,from what I can see it's going to run me $500 or better. What I'm looking at is; the old ones work fine, I don't need 250+ hp, the transmission will let go as soon as my back is turned [or the inj. pump], and it will need painting soon. Don't think I want to put that $ into it. Maybe if it was a 4x4. The trucks around these parts are falling apart from rust. Don't see to many 1st gens. Can't say how much longer mine will last before it crumbles,dust to dust and all that. To bad i'm not still in Fla. Then my dash would be crumbs and paint faded to a chalky white. Oh well. Bottom line is if it don't look good I'll paint or replace it. As stated earlier, darn few 1 gen truck in these parts.



I worked on the fuel pin again and to no avail. It's stuck! Only way to move it is with the engine running. Then it comes out slowly all the way as the cone is temporarily removed for servicing. I know it rides on the cone though. And the engine launches like a cannon ball. Hope to try out a 16cm housing soon. BTW I turned the fuel screw in a little further, end result is MORE SMOKE Setting about one and one half turn in from stock.

Scott



POWERJOKE TURBO DIESEL???

:-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf