Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Governor Spring Bounce

[Dave Remillard]

I did not have any luck using the search feature so here goes. At times under light to medium throttle and suddenly letting off, I get this bounce sensation which I believe is from the GSK. I have read before that Piers was working on a fix for this, but I have yet to see what that is.

Have any of you that experienced this found a cure? It also seems to get worse if I add one

more click to the spring retainers, so I'm wondering if others have found this to be the same I did not install the kit, so I'm not too sure how tight the springs should be set. The last time I experimented with them, a friend had his rig over and we compared distance of retainer clip in relation to end of the spring post. Mine was about two clicks looser than his. We took up the two clicks and since then I've noticed this bounce sensation more. Sure would be nice to eliminate this problem.

Thanks

 

[JohnE]

Some call it bounce. Piers & Al call it "flutter".

I think, Don M (that posts on NWBombers) was working on a modified seat to eliminate the flutter. Hopefully he will respond on your post there.

I'll email you with my experience.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Loosen your retainers all the way, then tighten then it the very first click... . you can barely feel it! Then go one more click, put it back together and road test it, if it fine and not to touchy on the throttle then you can try one more click..... it's up to you! Mine is real touchy on the throttle... . lot of power, little throttle..... and that is fine but it make the cruise control too touchy if there too tight, 3-4 lb boost spike... . that will set you in the seat. On mine I have to set it as above but I haven't tried to limit the vacuum to the cruise control yet.



Jim

 

[esommer2500]

I ended up adjusting my springs four times. Now they are at 2 clicks, like Jim Fulmer said. Every pump is different, but mine works very well here.



Eric

 

[Dave Remillard]

Thanks for the replies. Just two more ?'s. Do the guys running the 4K GSK have this problem? If not, it might be time to make the change. Question #2, is it a must to go with the heavier valve springs when going with the 4K kit? I'm not one to try to float valves, thus don't think I would need to install them. Performance up to and slightly above 3K is good enough for me. Thanks

 

[Deezul1]

My 4K kit was real touchy like that and I did as Jim suggested and loosened the retainers a little and now its just like stock. I have had mine to 3500RPM with stock valve springs and no float so far but I have only done it 2-3 times, usually try and stay under 3300.

 

[zjones]

I have no idle bounce with my 4000GSK with my springs set at 3 clicks. I do have a flutter at 2800-3100rpm in 1st (low) & 2nd under no load (easy on the throttle running empty) , no flutter full throttle or pulling a trailer.

I have had mine to 3500RPM with stock valve springs and no float so far but I have only done it 2-3 times, usually try and stay under 3300.

Deezul1 your crazy, new valve springs are much cheaper & easier to install than valves, head, clean up cylinders ect.

 

[Dave Remillard]

I finally had time to tinker on the springs this weekend. As Jim Fulmer suggested, I backed them off and came back three clicks. Seems fine for now, but when the warmer weather arrives I suspect that could change. It seems to flutter more in warmer temeratures. I'll just back them off a click or two then and see what works best. Thanks for all the input.

 

[Forrest]

When does this bounce happen?



I noticed a bounce, only when I let off the throttle & let the rpm drop to idle. You can hear a bounce in the rpm just as it hits idle rpm. Is this it?





thanks

 

[Dave Remillard]

Forrest... You've described it well. Yes it is when letting off the fun pedal when you notice it.

 

[JJW_ND]

Cold engine ....big bounce!

I have readjusted mine several times trying to get rid of this "Idle Bounce". It was almost non-existent after JohnE did the original install. I have only made it worse.



I don't like it as when the engine is really cold (think below zero oild, iron, etc) the bounce or drop is so bad it just about kills the motor. I also notice the engine idle change from a warm engine from a cold is much more RPMS now. Used to just be 100 rpms or so. Now it is like 300.



jjw

ND

 

[Tom C]

My truck wont idle at 2 clicks in. It idled at 200 rpm at 4 clicks. I now have it at 8 clicks (which is the stock dimension for the stud to petrude from the adjusting nut). 8 clicks makes the stud 3/16" above the adjusting nut. now my idle rpm is about 100 rpm less than is was before the mod.



I have noticed a little bounce between gas off and gas on while cruising. throttle is extremly touchy. seems that only the first 1/2 of throttle movement is usefull. in other words I have full throttle at 1/2 actual throttle. from 1/2 to full throttle it does not seem to produce more power. is that normal?? or is that the #10 plate in the '95 truck??



Tom C





PS: I just added the 3gsk, #10 plate (middle possition) and AFC spring kit.

 

[Dave Remillard]

Tom C... I'm just a learning myself on these, but I think I would be inclined to drop the clicks back to around three, maybe two, and then adjust the idle screw. Very easy to do and is most assuredly needed anytime the spring tension is changed. It takes a 10mm wrench. I have my idle set at what I believe to be 850 rpm's and when I put it in gear it drops to around 775 to 800 rpm's. All the response and power at the low end indicates to me from what I have learned is that you need to back off on the spring. A bunch of good advice shared on this thread, but what Jim Fulmer described clicked in my mind as to what I should be doing and expecting. Give it a try, you may like it better.

 

[Tom C]

thanks for the input. I have already tryied the gsk at 4 clicks. throttle possision for power is no different than at 8 clicks. My truck in stock form other than the tweaking the previous owner had done to the pump would run hard and not defuel till 3400 rpm. These new 3gsk springs will let it rev to 3600 but the power drops off after 1/2 throttle or Im just getting full throttle at the actual 1/2 possision. Im going to try and put the old springs back in and see how it runs with the #10 plate. I may not need the new springs if I can get to 3400 rpm without defueling with the stock springs and hopefully I will get use of the full movement of my throttle... Ill try an well see. I comment back when I have them switched out. I wont be able to do it until this weekend though.



Regards,



Tom C

 

[Tom C]

Well, I put the stock governer spings back in. I like how I have full use of my throttle again. BUT... . Now it defuels at 2900 RPM It used to defuel at 3400. . hhhmmmm.



What would happen if I loosen the stock springs? (I have them back in the same place as before I removed them) would this allow higher RPMs? I can loosen then about 4 clicks.



Also The #10 plate about 1/8" back from middle possision feels like it has less pep than the stock plate full forward. And EGT's are hitting 1500 at full throttle.



The 3GSK springs help with the ability to rev higher but I dont like the how they put all the throttle within the first half of movement. (too touchy)



got any sugestions for keeping the egt's down and power up?

 

[JohnE]

Tom;



A sensitive throttle is one of the indications of governor springs set too tight.



I believe your stock plate fully forward will allow more high speed fueling than a modestly positioned #10 plate.



Where is the governor lever striking the plate when you check the settings?



Your 1500° EGTs are at what rpm?

I have to get way into the 3k rpms to get my EGTs into the danger point. I run a #4 which defuels less than a #10 in the higher rpm range.

 

[Tom C]

John, thanks for your reply.



I have put the 3gsk springs back in (im getting good at it). This time I only tighted them 2 clicks (was at 4 or 5 clicks before with the stud petruding 3/16"). the stud is now even with the adjusting nut. Idle was really low so I adjusted it at the rear of the pump. I also noticed I had forgotten to adjust the tension to zero lash on the back of the AFC housing diaphram. So I adjusted that and put the star wheel about 1/8" back from the front (I was getting alot of low rpm smoke). So now the throttle feals much better , BUT now the engine rpm is slow to returning to idle . This is going to make me crazy :{



All linkage looks good and works free.



EGT's get to 1500 still with the plate in the middle at 3/4 to full throttle from 2500rpm on up. Its hard to do a speed run to see what my max speed is now with the righer rpm's available because temps get too hot. Never know when I may have to blow the doors off a power joke or duramuc



boost gets to 30-32 PSI



would some bigger injectors help the egt's?



Is the slow return to idle because the gsk spring are now too loose??

 

[JohnE]

Bigger injectors would help the EGTS climb ^higher.



Something is funny. A #10 plate in a 95 manual is supposed to produce 220/570. Modest hp but big torgue gain with safe EGTs.



Throttle return: <strike>try turning the star wheel a few more clicks to the firewall. That will let the AFC foot help return the governor lever to idle. </strike>

<em>edit: turning the star wheel is for smoke control when boost drops.

Try setting the governor springs a click tighter. Slow rpm drop may help prevent turbo bark, too. </em>



Drop me an email and we'll try get to the bottom of this. .

 

[Dave Remillard]

Tom... I just re-read your signature and noticed nothing mentioned about intake or exhaust modifications. Even though I doubt they are the root cause, it is possible they could contribute to the EGT's climbing higher and quicker. Your signature also mentioned the AFC spring being tweaked. Just curious what you can tell us about this. In attempting to get my AFC working properly, one of the things I learned is it doesn't take but very slight adjustments to make drastic changes.

BTW, John has been a terrific help for me in the past. I'm sure he will help you as much as he can.

Dave

 

[Tom C]

Dave, i'll update my sig.



My exhaust is stock but missing the muffler.



AFC spring is the light STS spring about 1/8" back from front.



Truck has no EGR



Stock turbo



I like the power and throttle responce now. My only issues are the EGT when having fun and the rpms slow return to idle.



BTW: having those springs too tight will give great throttle responce if you like a touch throttle and a bit of throttle bounce.



Thanks for the help.