Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Greetings from Germany...Clutch?

[KrisKringle]

Hello all, I finally have a Cummins Diesel... It took a while, and a change of country, but finally... My Brother has had two, and has been active here, but I do not know his username... He's the guy with the Hemi 'cuda, Hemi Sattelite, and his wife has a new Dodge R/t Challenger...





Anyway, it seems the 2001 Dodge Ram (135K miles) I bought is needing a clutch... not immediate, but the clutch engages on the last third of the pedal travel. The truck has a 5-speed, and a Dana 80. To top it off, there is a harmonic vibration around 70 or so (mph), so I think the U-joints are on there way out... (Brinelled)...



And of course the Dash is toast, but that is already handled... . Truck is out of TX, NO rust, and except for a few dents, Super Clean.



The truck had a third hitch, and all of the wiring for the electric brake (just took it out) in the bed, as well as on the bumper, so it was definitely used for some heavy towing...



Can anyone recommend something economical? David (the brother), tells me about 'South Bend', but that is a bit out of my league. Here are a few links of what I find 'reasonable':



What is with 'Clutch Masters' ?



Clutch Kits for the Dodge Ram 2500 from HorsepowerFreaks





Or Phoenix Friction?

05-092. 3 Stage 3 Extra Heavy Duty Organic Clutch Kit: Dodge 5. 9L Diesel, 8. 0L Gas Ram 2500, 3500 - 12¼"



Thanks for your help... BTW, the Turbo sounds like I have a jet under the hood... echt geil...

 

[Mr. Hemi]

Just posted help for you, bro. Hopefully some fellow German CTD owner can come on by and check out your awesome place. BTW just laid down some awesome tracks from the hemicuda in Pennsburg, wife was a bit full of angst as it was getting kind of scarey.

 

[Nyoest]

Welcome to the TDR!
congrats on the purchase.
What's ech geil?

I wouldn't be too concerned where the clutch engagement at since it is all hydraulic. South bend clutch makes an adjustable heavy duty master and slave cyl combo that let's you put the engagement right were you want it. This setup is a lot less than a new clutch.

What are your plans for the truck? If high horse power or heavy towing is in your future you need a good south bend clutch. If it's a mild tow rig or commuter I'd put a stock clutch in it before a no name eBay special clutch.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

... What's ech geil?...
QUOTE]

echt geil = really cool.

 

[KrisKringle]

Towing use and clutch

Welcome to the TDR!

congrats on the purchase.

What's ech geil?



I wouldn't be too concerned where the clutch engagement at since it is all hydraulic. South bend clutch makes an adjustable heavy duty master and slave cyl combo that let's you put the engagement right were you want it. This setup is a lot less than a new clutch.



What are your plans for the truck? If high horse power or heavy towing is in your future you need a good south bend clutch. If it's a mild tow rig or commuter I'd put a stock clutch in it before a no name eBay special clutch.

Thanks to all for the replies... IME, Hyd. Clutches seem to grab higher and higher in the pedal travel as the material goes away. Did not think it would be different with this one. Especially since it appears to be an original clutch that was used for heavy towing. Jeepers, 135K, and the original clutch? In my cuda I was lucky to get 40K :-laf



No High power, no chipping, nada, I want the truck to last without complications. Towing? Maybe a horse trailer someday, but there is a possibility that it could pull a 25' trailer with pre-fab walls weighing 5 tonnes.



Has anyone had experience with Phoenix unitis?



Thanks again.

 

[KrisKringle]

Happy Birthday and Father's day...



Uhh, where did you post the help? JK

 

[KrisKringle]

Help?

Just posted help for you, bro. Hopefully some fellow German CTD owner can come on by and check out your awesome place. BTW just laid down some awesome tracks from the hemicuda in Pennsburg, wife was a bit full of angst as it was getting kind of scarey.

Happy Birthday and Father's day...



Uhh, where did you post the help? JK

 

[HBarlow]

The OEM LUK brand clutch is excellent for those trucks. I used OEM clutches for 325k miles on my '01 and did a lot of trailer towing with it.

 

[KrisKringle]

LUK brand clutch?

The OEM LUK brand clutch is excellent for those trucks. I used OEM clutches for 325k miles on my '01 and did a lot of trailer towing with it.

Thanks for the info. OEM I understand, but what is LUK? Thanks

 

[GCroyle]

Kris,



LuK is actually a German company. Here is the US it is based in Ohio. I'm going to get this slightly wrong but is is something like Lamellen und Kupplungsbau, I have the correct spelling at work, sorta means clutch parts. And from my communications in the industry it is written LuK and pronunced like Luke, not Lux or Luck. I'm not aware of the 2nd Gen clutch being used in a German application.



Two signs of wear normal clutch wear, slipping under power and or increased pedal effort. This is difficult to compare because it is a slow process to go from original feel to worn disc created pedal effort increase.



Enjoy your truck Kris.

 

[HBarlow]

I think you'll find LUK clutches with a google search. IIRC, I bought a new replacement from an internet discounter in FL years ago for my '01. Very reasonable priced.

GCroyle is probably correct about it being spelled LuK and a German company.

 

[KrisKringle]

Kris,



'... Two signs of wear normal clutch wear, slipping under power and or increased pedal effort. This is difficult to compare because it is a slow process to go from original feel to worn disc created pedal effort increase... '



Enjoy your truck Kris.

Actually, the name is Jonathan, the brother of Mr. Hemi...



Thanks for your info. Here Sachs is a big supplier. I am going to check with a local supplier. Perhaps he can cross-reference the PN.



AFAIK, with most Hydraulic Clutches, as the facings wear, the pedal engages at a higher and higher rate of pedal travel, as the facing material is worn away. In the old days, the free play in the clutch kept going away, until the linkage was shortened to bring it back again.



Hyd clutches, are normally 'self-adjusting'. Perhaps Dodge has developed a new system.



Although not slipping, the last 1/2" of travel is when the clutch engages. Given the information available (previously mentioned), I am inclined to believe that the clutch is not shot, but near the end of its' useful life.



Another point to consider, is that I have a one-time deal as part of the purchase of the truck to ship the parts to bring it up to snuff to an APO here in Germany. Too bad I do not have the money for a Posi unit... JK

 

[GCroyle]

Jonathan,



Correct, Sachs is a big supplier in Europe with aftermarket sales here in the US. They had the 1st gen clutch (cast iron 13") which was a cousin of a MB straight truck system that was used in Europe and South America.



Your 2nd gen 5 speed uses a smaller conventional diaphragm push type clutch with a conventional hydraulic release system. The bells and whistle clutch system didn't show up until the G56 in mid '05.



If you have a chance, consider getting a clutch fork at the same time. They do wear at the bearing contact point, but all things considered they hold up well. The flywheel might be good or using that free freight card on a 50 Lb part might be just the ticket.



Will you be doing the installation yourself?

 

[KrisKringle]

Jonathan,



... Will you be doing the installation yourself?...

Yep. Really excited about it... not. Any tips? Glad it is not 4WD... JK

 

[GCroyle]

Jonathan,



PM sent with installation tips.



If you have a lift and trans jack the biggest hurdles have been taken care of right there.



This truck has a cross member that wegdes in between the frame rails. Many here have promoted porta power spreaders, or bottle jacks to spread the frame to assist removing it. We have done a bunch of 2nd Gens and after the trans has been raised up off of the x-member and the 8 bolts removed, we just start tapping the x-member up until it just makes contact with the bottom of the cab, then start tapping it back to the rear, tap up, tap back L-R-L-R repeat repeat. We do not use a sledge hammer, just a bit of patience. The key is go up first then back.

 

[KrisKringle]

Jonathan,



PM sent with installation tips.



If you have a lift and trans jack the biggest hurdles have been taken care of right there.



This truck has a cross member that wegdes in between the frame rails. Many here have promoted porta power spreaders, or bottle jacks to spread the frame to assist removing it...

Thanks again for all of your help. Yep, access to Lift, and Trans Jack. Also have a porto-power, but would be a bit hesitant to start jacking the frame rails apart. Have to wait until the parts get here. Still weighing the options of using the 13" clutch and flywheel kit from Rock Auto, or the Sachs unit...



Now I have to figure out what centre support bearing to get. The truck is now at a garage to get the German paperwork...

 

[Nyoest]

Thanks to all for the replies... IME, Hyd. Clutches seem to grab higher and higher in the pedal travel as the material goes away.

Thanks again.

Following this same logic hyd brakes would throw you through the winshield at the top of the pedal. The slave cylinder rod is going to extend as the clutch facing wears to up slack in my mind.



I put a new sb dual disc clutch in my 96 because the engagement was at the top of the pedal and it was slipping. I'll be damned if the $1600 south bend didn't engage in just about the same spot on the pedal when installed. I put a new mc and slave cyl combo in to fix it. Bunch of money later the engagement is still in the same exact spot as before. Talk about one disapointed hombre.



You may need a new clutch and kudos to you if you can do the work yourself. I'm sure there aren't too many ctd's rumbling around that neck of the woods.



Don't let anyone worry you about the crossmember. Just a tap on one side then a tap on the other and repeat a hundred times and it will fall right out.

 

[KrisKringle]

Following this same logic hyd brakes would throw you through the winshield at the top of the pedal. The slave cylinder rod is going to extend as the clutch facing wears to up slack in my mind.

Thanks for the input. The difference between the (disk) brakes and the clutch is the brake pads maintain a close tolerance with the disks, they are not pulled back by a repurn spring, as the clutch fork is. Just like drum brakes without automatic adjusters, as the shoes wear, more pedal travel is needed to cover the distance between the lining and drum.



Yesterday, I noticed a bit of chatter. Of course I am probably being oversensative. No slip mind you, but of course the only load on the truck is its own weight. The tires light up before the clutch slips. Really looking forward to winter, as even on merely wet roads the truck is eager to spin the tires... . 2WD might not have been such a great idea after all. Guess I will look for tire-chains and a put a hundred kilos of sand bags in the bed come winter.



Thanks for the info about the SB clutch. I am in no rush to tear it apart, I just want to be prepared, and well-informend. Seems that this is the right place for that. Jonathan

 

[TboneMan]

I've been in your neck of the woods a couple of times. All I can say is good luck getting around city and village streets with a PU truck. :-laf

 

[GCroyle]

Thanks for the input. The difference between the (disk) brakes and the clutch is the brake pads maintain a close tolerance with the disks, they are not pulled back by a repurn spring, as the clutch fork is. Jonathan

Jonathan,



Clarification: There is no return spring on these trucks for the release fork. The bearing is in constant contact with the diaphragm spring tips, it is known as preload. The preload comes from the spring inside the slave cylinder applying a force to the fork to the bearing to the spring tips.



I do not know of any current hydraulic release system in the US market that has a return spring system. Some may take this as a trivia challange, and find some 1960's vintage app that does, I'm reffering to our popular current fleet of domestic and import vehicles, cars and pickup's.



Also, earlier you quoted me showing that I stated many here have used some technique to spread the frame rails. I am not suggesting that, we use the technique that I mentioned, we have never spread the rails.