2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Grid heater idea?

[MLee]

A while back this was discussed, one guy, [can't remember his name] run the ground wire to a pressure switch mounted in the oil filter mount, the grid heaters came on, on start, and the pressure switch turned them off when the oil pressure came up.

I mounted a 'push to start switch' in the ground circuit, which turns them on while holding the button. The PCM will show the WTS light indicting them being on but you know they are not on. They quit when you reach 18 mph and will activate at 53* and yes they are suppose to help eliminate the smoke on start up, but not sure on this. But, bring up the oil pressure, check all systems, and drive slow to moderate to warm everything.

just my penny's worth.

Marv.

 

[Midnite]

There's actually a cap available designed to replace a group 31 battery. I ran across an ad in a marine magazine (Passage Maker, I think) not too long ago. The thing is comparable in size and power output to a group 31 battery, and is supposed to be good for something like 100,000 or more start cycles.

It was also more than $1,000 if I remember right, and for that kind of change I can buy a lot of batteries. In fairness though, the ad positioned it for boats that had limited/difficult access to the starting battery. We certainly don't have access problems for the batteries in our trucks so it just doesn't make sense for us. Interesting stuff though.

Mike

 

[2-ND TIME]

Grid heaters

They are for starting and to smooth idle. This also reduces smoke pollution ever seen diesel at -30*C smoke . At camp ( I like the smell of diesel but) the smell of diesel fumes was toooo much!

 

[SRath]

I would have to get it out to confirm it, but when I first got my '96 and actually read the owner's manual, I believe it said it was important to leave the key on without starting until the dash light went out. If you did not do this, the preheaters would not function at all and you would be starting and running cold until the engine warmed up. If that is true, simply cranking the key fully without allowing for the initial cycle ought to cut the drain on your batteries.



We are having a sudden heat wave the past couple of days, with temps pushing almost 40. But we have had many sub-zero days all winter and I do not plug my truck in except at work (nice perk; parking where my semi tractor gets plugged in ). So I just leave my heater grids alone and fully cycle them. I would never just "jump in, crank it, and go" without giving the engine some warmup time and letting the oil circulate awhile.



BTW, my batteries are at least 10 years old and may be the originals for all I know. I put heavy drain on them with my snowplow, and they are still going strong even in subzero weather. Each winter I think "I'll bet I need new batteries soon. " Each winter, I don't...

 

[DCreed]

BTW, my batteries are at least 10 years old and may be the originals for all I know. I put heavy drain on them with my snowplow, and they are still going strong even in subzero weather. Each winter I think "I'll bet I need new batteries soon. " Each winter, I don't...

JINX !!:-laf

 

[DPellegrin]

It appears to me that many of the posters on this thread some how want to defeat or disconnect the grid heaters? WHY?



Original batteries seem to last from 6-10 years. Alternators last 200K miles. Cummins has determined that at the temperatures in which the grid heaters are on diesel combustion needs to be enhanced! I believe its clear that when the heaters are on the engine runs smoother which I'm sure leads to less lube oil fuel dilution and reduced over all combustion products contamination of the oil.



Why so eager to turn them off?



Regards,

 

[DennyDay]

The easy way is to install a pressure switch on the oil filter housing - normally closed with no oil pressure, opens with oil pressure. Run two leads to Ground side of heater relays. The heater will operate normally when starting truck, but as soon as oil pressure comes up, they will shut down. If it is very cold (under 10 deg), I let the grids cycle twice. Been using this since 2003 on my 01 Truck, and never had a problem. Also eliminated alternator and battery problems at 168,000 miles.



Hope this helps



Denny

 

[drag racer]

It appears to me that many of the posters on this thread some how want to defeat or disconnect the grid heaters? WHY?

Original batteries seem to last from 6-10 years. Alternators last 200K miles. Cummins has determined that at the temperatures in which the grid heaters are on diesel combustion needs to be enhanced! I believe its clear that when the heaters are on the engine runs smoother which I'm sure leads to less lube oil fuel dilution and reduced over all combustion products contamination of the oil.

Why so eager to turn them off?

Regards,

speaking for me only... here's a few thoughts

1) did you see the picture I posted earlier? The grid heater is a somewhat unrealized by many, airflow restriction. Removing the heater adds a measureable amount of hp on the dyno. Plus, the underhood looks better and by removing the two fairly beefy wiring harnesses frees up the maze a little on the LH side

2) I live in the desert climate, and the heater is flatout not needed. They are supposed to only be on when IAT is less than 59F

3) they do draw a lot of current, which is not that big of deal to me, but the cycling and dimming of the electrical system is kind of annoying.

P. S. If you get 6-10 years out of ANY automotive battery, then I want to shake your hand and get your autograph! Hard to believe.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

or just get lucky like I did and get a PS grid system saver.



It monitors coolant temp and will only cycle the grids when temp is BELOW 110* Plus retains the OEM dodge off @ 25 mph , blah blah.



BTW airflow under pressure is so not an issue. If pressure is present via the turbo, flow is just the same constant.

 

[Tomscreek]

PS grid system saver

What's that?

 

[DPellegrin]

Drag Racer- A couple of observations:

I can not agree with your statement that the grid heaters are an air flow restriction. That would mean there would be a pressure drop across the heater coils. The boost pressure would be greater above them than below them. The fact is the boost pressure is equal on both sides of the coils. The laws of physics would say that this is not a restriction. What makes you think there is a flow restriction here? Perhaps at some flow rate (boost pressure) that this engine never sees the heater may become a restriction but I believe this would be approaching choke flow.



You are going to have to shake a lot of hands and get a lot of autographs. I regularly read of members on this forum getting 5+ years out of their original batteries and some as much as 10 years. I just replaced my original batteries in my 01 that were 6 years old. I only replaced them knowing that there is a Minnesota winter coming, not because they were giving me a problem. Perhaps battery life is different in Arizona. "... hard to believe. "



REGARDS

 

[MRiley]

P. S. If you get 6-10 years out of ANY automotive battery, then I want to shake your hand and get your autograph! Hard to believe.

I'm still running my original batteries! Oh and I'm available for autographs and hand shaking any time!:-laf

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

What's that?

It's a system that Practical Solutions Diesel Products had made a few years ago. It uses two thermocouples (Picture of my truck follow two wires over valve cover) that have a low limit of 110 or 115* and stops the heaters from cycling at anything above that coolant temp. He stoped making the system a year or so ago due to the high cost of the thermocouples. Basicly you can make your own by taking the relay sgnal wire and having it pass through a coolant temp switch.

#ad




They go to

the two ports circled

 

[DShore]

Drag Racer- A couple of observations:

I can not agree with your statement that the grid heaters are an air flow restriction. That would mean there would be a pressure drop across the heater coils. The boost pressure would be greater above them than below them. The fact is the boost pressure is equal on both sides of the coils. The laws of physics would say that this is not a restriction. What makes you think there is a flow restriction here? Perhaps at some flow rate (boost pressure) that this engine never sees the heater may become a restriction but I believe this would be approaching choke flow.



You are going to have to shake a lot of hands and get a lot of autographs. I regularly read of members on this forum getting 5+ years out of their original batteries and some as much as 10 years. I just replaced my original batteries in my 01 that were 6 years old. I only replaced them knowing that there is a Minnesota winter coming, not because they were giving me a problem. Perhaps battery life is different in Arizona. "... hard to believe. "



REGARDS

I agree with DRAG RACER, the grid heaters are a restriction to air flow. They cause turbulence which restricts and slows down air flow. Flow (cu. ft. per min) is a volume measurement and depends on several parameters such as speed, pressure, pipe diameter, restrictions + friction, etc. , and can be measured on a flow bench. Pressure can be measured by a pressure gauge (lb. per sq. in. ), but to show a small difference in pressure, a very sensitive instrument that is calibrated in much smaller increments must be used in order to get a differential pressure measurement. Pressure is only one of the parameters used to determine flow.



Battery life has a lot to do with temperature, climate & usage + the quality of the original product. My 2 cents worth.

 

[DPellegrin]

DShore- Your explanation has not convinced me that the grid heaters are, some how, an air flow restriction. In the absence of an actual flow measurement both with and without the grid heater in place, the best evidence that there is not a flow restriction here comes from Bernoulli's principle in physics of the conservation of energy for fluid flows. Bernoulli said that an increase in velocity of a flowing fluid increases its kinetic energy while decreasing its static energy. This is why a flow restriction causes an increase in flow velocity and also causes a drop in the static pressure of the flowing fluid (like your thumb over the end of a garden hose). Therefore, as turbocharger compressor air passes through the grid heater (you say restriction) it should accelerate, the energy for this acceleration is obtained from the air's static pressure. The pressure should drop at the point of restriction (grid heaters). But the pressure does not drop, thus the grid heater is not a restriction at maximum engine horsepower air flows! It might be a restriction at some much higher engine air flow, but the engine never sees air flows that high.



Also it seems to me that Cummins engineers, who are pretty smart guys, would not knowingly put an air flow restriction in the engine's intake. This would cause pumping losses and hurt the engines overall thermal efficiency.



Respectfully,

 

[Tomscreek]

I'd just like to know how to rig a switch on the dash to manually turn the grid heaters on/off. I think that would be the simplest and best solution. Someone should really make a kit and sell it.

 

[rweis]

It seems that the ECM has several check points (codes) to see if the grid heaters are functioning or not. One of the points the ECM does NOT have is basic battery power to the relay heavy duty contacts.



So ( in my opinion) if you want to control the grid heater functioning from the cab I would control the major battery power to the relay contact. It would have to be a very heavy duty switch or a seperate set of relays controlling the battery power (which complicates the grid system with another layer of relays, failures etc).



I tend to like the heavy duty approach to projects (design overkill).



Battery switches for boats can handle the 100 + amp draw the grid heater relays control easily. Mount it on the firewall, wire it with the appropriate HEAVY wire. You want / do not want grid heaters, reach down and turn it on or off.



Perko Battery Switch

$37. 99 sale $29. 49

Save: 22% off

Fiber-reinforced polycarbonate body

Brass terminals

For use on systems under 50 volts

Rated at 250 amps continuous, 360 amps intermittent.



Model: 8501DP



Or let the grid heater system do its thing, or disconnect it totally, or connect it when you want it, or just don't worry about it.



Bob Weis

 

[Forrest Nearing]

I've got mine gutted... no performance difference, but I don't watch the charge needle and the headlights dance anymore



just put the relays on a toggle, it's an emissions thing afterall