Competition Grid Heaters or Ether on low compression preformance engine?

[RyanB]

Just wondering what most of you guys with built low compression engines are doing for start ups? My engine is down to about 15:1 and has a Haisley cam and just like what they said... . its going to need ether on all but the warmest days! I don't mind using spray to start it but its a pain by my self and I have heard its best to have someone else spray at the same time as being cranked just to keep the cylinders lubed up! I have also heard storries of using it to much!



Up untill now I was only running one battery in the truck (1150 CCA's) and am moving it to the box to make room in the engine bay so I could jump to 2 if needed.



I was worried about the major wiring headache with setting the grid heaters up in my GM conversion.



I am now wondering if you all might think it would be a good idea to run them and just use heavy duty wiring and put a toggle in the cab with a nice big light so I know when its on! I deffinatly want it to be manual so I can still spray the ether and not blow anything up!



Also another thing to think about is... Im up in Ontario, Canada. Now im not in the below freezing temps all year long (actually very comparable to MI,IN or Ohio) its just it does tend to cool down a little faster here.



So lets hear it... what do you all think I should do?

 

[GOT-Torque]

I would just do like you said, grid heaters with a manual style switch and a light. One of the those aircraft switches with the flip open cover would be pretty cool and make it hard to activate them by accident.

 

[RyanB]

Anyone have any idea how many amps a toggle would have to be rated at for this or how what guage wire???



Ryan

 

[GOT-Torque]

You don't want to provide the power source for the grid heaters thru the switch, you would need one heck of a switch. Get some stock heater grid relays off a wrecked truck and even the factory cables that feed them from the battery. Then you only need to provide 12V to the relays to activate them and let them carry the load for the grid heaters. If you need a pic I could probably get one for ya...

 

[RyanB]

sure, pictures are always great. I know I have a set of grid relays (I think I still have them anyway) from a 24valve. Just have to find them...



Would anyone have a schematic of how they would be set to operate manually?

 

[zstroken]

Are you wanting to run the grid heaters?? Or use ether?? Grid heaters, put them on a thermal switch to turn them on and the oil pressure to turn them off. You could of course have a switch to enable/disable them. You can also get an either setup off of tractor. I know the 66 series internationals had them.

 

[RyanB]

I am thinking of using the either for when it just won't start even with the grid heaters cycled a few times. In the past 2 months I have only once been able to start it with out ether and it was 100+ outside that day and that time it fired in the first few cranks.



What I usually do is crank it with the fuel off for 5-10 seconds to build up oil pressure, and then turn the fuel on (cable shut off). If I need to ether it I will have someone give it a quick shot right before I turn on the fuel. Starts up right away but I think some heat might just do the trick!



Curt told me about the John Deere kit when I was down picking up my engine but they would just make me unhook it when I pull (wouldn't that be a wild ride!!!!)so I would rather not bother with it



What is everyone else running with low compression doing?

 

[GO 4LO]

I always park at the top of a big hill and then push start mine...



Chris

 

[Chace TX]

Push button.

I put a push button wired to the relay on my 91, that way you don't leave it on, just hold the button down for 20 sec or so.

 

[RyanB]

I put a push button wired to the relay on my 91, that way you don't leave it on, just hold the button down for 20 sec or so.

Thats a real good idea. Any chance you could tell me how you wired them up manually though?



RyanB

 

[Chace TX]

I'll look.

I did that mod in 97, and have not done one since but I'll look at the 92 in shop and see if I can figure it out again.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Ryan, mine is the same way! I use the stock grids and have to use them when it's cold or it will never start, once it has been started, it's fine for the rest of the day.



The toggle switch and light would be a better way, you could then turn them on, start it and either turn them on at anytime or off when ever you wanted to. I have had to pull the sensor plug on mine to make them fail ON before.



Wish I would have know this I would have run more compression and less Cam..... not really worth it to me.



Another thing I noticed is when you start it cold and drive off from the house without the grids it will smoke and stumble till it gets some heat or EGT's.



The lower compression and a big cam is fine for a purpose built truck but not for a street truck..... live and learn



Jim

 

[Morse]

Jim, where is your compression? I have a billet cam, and Jeff is going with 15 or 15. 5 on mine. .

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Start with a 17. 5 piston, take 50 or 60 thou off it (no I can't remember) and take . 008 off the head... ... ... something like 15. 5. Not the true Ill effects of low compression but some of them. Your not going to go wrong with Jeff that's for sure.



I'm home for a whopping week before I go back out again! Phone is on!



Jim

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I have a CR of 15:1 with the Schied Forged pistons and a PDR cam. I took the stock Dodge solenoids off the inner fender well and threw them away. replaced them with two big snowplow solenoids going to the grids and I power these with a an LED toggle and a relay set up from AutoZone. Give 'em a good soak and it fires right up. Been working for two years now.

 

[RyanB]

thanks guys for the help! Jim- I remember you saying that now when we talked back in June about that! Now I have heard two different ways of doing this in this post. I know the Dodge relays are enough... seeing I have finally found them in the shop should I just run them? Can anyone tell me how to wire them up as a stand alone unit?



Thanks... RyanB

 

[RyanB]

Found my relays this morning. Looking at them they are going to be pretty easy to wire up. Thanks for all the imput guys! I will let you know how much better it fires once there hooked up!



RyanB

 

[RyanB]

Alright guys, I got the grids working manually now and there great! I can flip the switch, wait 20 seconds, crank, turn on my fuel and she fires up right away! wouldn't have ever dreamed I could have done that!



There is one thing though, I have a lighted togle switch but I have once already forgot about it being on while working on it and after a few minutes it was getting toasty!!! does anyone know of a alarm or anything that could be wired into the light switch? it would then be almost like when you leave your lights on and the warning alarm goes so you remember to turn them off!



I could just wire up a 12volt alarm siren but that would get a little anoying after a while!



Ryan

 

[zstroken]

Use a momentary toggle or pushbutton, you could also build something using relays.

 

[RyanB]

well the momentary switch would be great! but I only have two hands. I have a manual fuel shut off so one hand cranks, the other turns on the fuel (I like to crank with out fuel untill I see oil-pressure and then I turn it on) so that makes it had to have that kind of switch although it would be really nice. Might have to go to a place like Radio-Shack or something and can see what I can find, was just wondering if anyone else had ever done something like this



RyanB