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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Grid Heaters...

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Rman said:
nps, now be reasonable. Charge air at idle? The intercooler cools compressed air, at idle your not compressing anything, it's practically N/A at that point. The grids shutoff once your rolling down the road. I still don't see the justification, just how many alt's and batteries are going bad solely because of this? Any numbers? My whole family has dodges, at 245k on the highest truck we've still not replaced the alternator.

He said he has a problem with them continuing to cycle on and off. He said "on and off all the time". He said "Driving down the road, it seems like there is a little power pull down on a regular basis". The question was whether or not the grids continuing to cycle on and off all causes problems. You are assuming they turn off at speed like they were designed. Incorrect assumption based on the original post IMO.



SGrooms - the hotter air is less dense. With the warmer weather and your grids cycling you may get more smoke, and lose some mpg and performance in additon to more draw from your alternator. If your grids are always cycling, I would definitely pull the relays before using your air conditioner.
 
nps said:
He said he has a problem with them continuing to cycle on and off. He said "on and off all the time". He said "Driving down the road, it seems like there is a little power pull down on a regular basis". The question was whether or not the grids continuing to cycle on and off all causes problems. You are assuming they turn off at speed like they were designed. Incorrect assumption based on the original post IMO.



SGrooms - the hotter air is less dense. With the warmer weather and your grids cycling you may get more smoke, and lose some mpg and performance in additon to more draw from your alternator. If your grids are always cycling, I would definitely pull the relays before using your air conditioner.



Granted I came to the thread a little late, lets clarify the rolling down the road. Rolling below 18 mph or so they should still cycle right? And even if they do continue to function, how about fixing the problem instead of putting a bandaid over it by yanking the grid heater fuse. If it were continually doing it, the ECM or one of the circuit sensors would have to be faulty.



Didn't mean to jump in your pants or anything, the mindless EPA bashing just irritates me. To say these grid heaters serve no purpose is silly, I've started in -35 and it sure wasn't an easy thing to do, without heaters it wouldn't have been possible. The alternators and batteries are designed to sustain the system reliably for a relatively long period. 300 bucks every 5 years is fine with me, look at how much people blow on oil every 3000 miles, now that's a travesty.
 
I pulled my grid heater because it is not needed in my climate. If it was broken, I wouldn't spend money to fix it until I did need the heater. Once the truck starts the grid is unnecessary, otherwise it would not be speed governed - it would be RPM governed. Guess they figure above 18mph is a high enough speed to dissipate the white smoke produced when cold.



The thread starter can choose whatever resolution best meets his situation.
 
SGrooms said:
I am on my original batteries on my 01, and I know that I am going to have to replace them. They went down on me once this winter, but it was my fault. I was responding to an ambulance call and I didnt' give enough time to let the grid heaters cycle and I wore the batteries down trying to start up. Didn't help that it was about 4 degrees!!



What are the long term affects of the grid heaters cycling on and off all the time? Just batteries and alternator or is there something else to be concerned about?



And you do not have provisions to keep the block heater plugged in 24/7 (when ever it's parked) and ready when you need to respond to ambulance call?



If you can, and you didn't, That is just down right stupid for the little cost to keep the motor warm a month.





AND BEFORE most of you complain about not ever needing a block heater either, Sure, ok, but when you are part of an emergency reponce team, you should know better about cold weater and getting a diesel started quickly and being responsible.
 
nps said:
I pulled my grid heater because it is not needed in my climate. If it was broken, I wouldn't spend money to fix it until I did need the heater. Once the truck starts the grid is unnecessary, otherwise it would not be speed governed - it would be RPM governed. Guess they figure above 18mph is a high enough speed to dissipate the white smoke produced when cold.



The thread starter can choose whatever resolution best meets his situation.



Being able to use the blockheater all day at work, and at night at home, my grid rarly ever cycled more then the standard 3 second (just like a warm start) all winter long. Maybe 12 or so total cold starts until about 35degree nights started recently. I never saw any smoke, white or blue becuase of this. BUT, the funny part is after an 8 hour down period in 80 degree temps I see blue smoke (injector leak? old cylinders?) in the dead of summer then winter.
 
Jason - can't comment on the CR motor - don't have any experience with it. But blue smoke certainly doesn't sound too good.
 
My relays stuck open on me. I had dead batteries and tried to jump my truck with an inferior car. It made a click, and shorted the relays to make them stay on. I couldn't get the truck started so I pulled the batteries and went and bought new ones. When I hooked up the power to the new batteries (key switch off) I smelled a "hot smell" under there. I put my hand on the intake horn and it was scorching hot! I disconnected the batteries and ended up pulling the cables from the grid heater block/relays. Been driving it for about a year like that with no issues. Temp never gets below around 25* here.
 
nps said:
Jason - can't comment on the CR motor - don't have any experience with it. But blue smoke certainly doesn't sound too good.



yeah, but it's only when it's 80+ degrees out, I never see it in the winter if it's 70ish and the gris cycle, I don't see it
 
Mindless EPA bashing? NOT!

Copyright Union-Tribune Publishing Co. Apr 1, 2006



A new diesel exhaust emission standard that goes into effect Jan. 1 will help clear the air, but at a significant cost to diesel- driving consumers and commercial truckers.



Limits on tailpipe emissions of nitrogen oxides and soot will be tightened by 90 percent over the current national standard. And the standard will increase again in 2010, with another round of equipment expected to be added to engines to further treat pollutants.



Diesel engines for 2007 heavy-duty pickups and larger trucks are being adapted to run on ultra low sulfur diesel fuel, which goes on sale in California in September and the rest of the country by mid- October.



The added cost of emissions equipment could range from $2,000 to $5,000 per vehicle for diesel pickups, vans and medium-duty work trucks, according to a document distributed by General Motor to its dealers.



Those costs are in addition to the higher retail price of the diesel engine, which can add as much as $6,000, depending on manufacturer.



The new fuel also will affect Californians who buy new- generation diesel pickups for travel to Baja California. Mexico's higher-sulfur diesel fuel will eventually clog the emissions treatment equipment and in severe cases lead to engine shutdown.



"Life as the dealers know it will end," said Barry Lehmer, general manager of North County GMC Jeep Kia. "Consequently, there is `manic panic' to get 2006 diesels. "



International, the truckmaker, expects to increase prices $5,000 to $6,000 per vehicle for its midrange diesel-powered trucks and buses. Heavy-duty Class 8 truck-tractors (with Caterpillar and Cummins engines) will see increases of $7,000 to $10,000, with additional charges for engines that have higher horsepower requiring dual aftertreatment.



Ford would not comment on its future pricing, except to say that the new standards will add cost for additional equipment. "Whether Ford will pass that cost along to the consumer is certainly a consideration," a spokesman said.



The heavy-duty, crew-cab four-wheel drive pickup is the most popular model in San Diego, Lehmer said.



Suggested retail prices for a GM truck range from $43,000 to $53,000, which includes the option price of $6,030 for the Duramax 6. 6 liter V-8 diesel engine and heavy-duty transmission.



The new diesel engines will feature cooled exhaust gas recirculation (common to passenger cars), a particulate filter to capture soot and some engine modifications to enable electronic calibration of engine management to minimize exhaust and fuel consumption.



Those added treatment systems are expected to cause a 4 percent loss of fuel efficiency, according to the Energy Information Administration. However, technological improvements are expected offset the loss by 2015.



The EIA reports the new fuel will cost 7 cents to almost 9 cents more per gallon "and could be higher if supply falls short of demand," said EIA spokesman Bin Zhang.



The added emissions equipment will not be desirable to San Diegans, Lehmer said, because of the added cost and limited travel range to Mexico.



"I expect it will cut my truck sales 30 percent," Lehmer said. "Next January my diesel sales will be 10 percent, then 20 percent in February and sometime by the middle of next summer I will be selling trucks again. " He also expects a boost in the resale value of late- model diesels.



Diesel engines are preferred for their reputation of long life, improved fuel economy over a gasoline engine and the power to tow 12,000-pound travel trailers and recreational vehicles.



But much of that advantage will be lost with the higher vehicle prices and the higher cost of fuel. In the San Diego area, diesel fuel costs about the same as premium unleaded gasoline.



The payback period to recapture the initial cost of a diesel vehicle over a gasoline model is a little more than six years, when driving 15,000 miles a year. The payback period for the 2007 diesel would be close to 10 years, according to GM.



"The only reason to own a diesel now would be to tow an extremely heavy trailer," Lehmer said. "The heaviest tow rating for a GM light- duty diesel is 14,000 pounds; the gas motor is 12,000 pounds. "



San Diegans who drive 2007 diesel trucks might avoid trips to Mexico, though experts say that just a tank or two of higher sulfur fuel is not likely to shorten the life cycle of the new engine's filter, experts say.



The Baja 1000 off-road races could be affected. There are 300,000 registered off-highway vehicles in the East and North County area, said Ed Soens, president of the San Diego Off Road Coalition.



"And I would say 1. 5 percent of those users drives a diesel truck to pull their trailers for the bikes, buggies and ATVs," he said. "If they are not going to be able to burn fuel from Mexico, and Mexico doesn't allow you to take fuel across the border, that will curtail a lot of activity down there unless somebody can make a deal. "



Pemex, the national oil company for Mexico, has plans for making improvements to its diesel fuel, but no new standards have been announced.



"There is an intention to considerably reduce sulfur content in diesel fuel, probably to about 30 parts per million, but there is no way that this will happen in the short term despite good intentions," said David Shields, an independent energy analyst in Mexico City.



The so-called green diesel engines use high-pressure direct injection systems and fine-tuned electronic fuel metering to control smoke and soot. The engines are designed to run on the new cleaner ultra-low sulfur diesel. The diesel particulate filter, or diffuser, collects soot by circulating exhaust gases through a series of ceramic honeycomb channels where the soot is trapped.



General Motors claims a price advantage over the competition because its diesel truck engine already has been using recirculated cooled exhaust gas. A particulate filter will be added to the 2007 trucks. Ford and Dodge are expected to use similar systems.



The most noticeable addition will be the filter, a cylinder about 10 inches across and 16 inches long, that will attach to the exhaust pipe.



GM has not said when the new diesels will be in dealerships, but Lehmer does not expect them for the traditional October new-car launch time.



"It seems as if they are telling us to be ready to sell gasoline (engines) because of the price differential, which would be an $8,000 difference," he said. The report also promotes GM as the only medium-duty truck maker that has a viable gasoline engine for heavy- duty applications, such as rental trucks and other fleet uses.



GM's 8. 1 liter V-8, which is rated for 325 horsepower and 450 foot-pounds of torque, is a $950 option in the pickup trucks, plus $1,200 for the heavy-duty transmission. Either engine is rated to pull a 12,000-pound trailer.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Texas Diesel said:
Copyright Union-Tribune Publishing Co. Apr 1, 2006



A new diesel exhaust emission standard that goes into effect Jan. 1 will help clear the air, but at a significant cost to diesel- driving consumers and commercial truckers.



I went looking for this on the the paper's web site. It isn't there.
 
It's more than mindless, I'll just refrain. So they're going to eliminate the grocery getters from buying a diesel, DARN the luck.
 
You can lead an ***** [donkey] to water but you cant make him think...



Grocery getter? English must be a second language :-laf



"International, the truckmaker, expects to increase prices $5,000 to $6,000 per vehicle for its midrange diesel-powered trucks and buses. Heavy-duty Class 8 truck-tractors (with Caterpillar and Cummins engines) will see increases of $7,000 to $10,000, with additional charges for engines that have higher horsepower requiring dual aftertreatment"
 
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Rman said:
I have plenty enough to cover it, how about you?





Sounds to me like this will put a serious dent in the diesel pick up market. I don't think I'll be getting a new one any time soon. Then I always intended to keep my '01 for a very long time.
 
Quote: "I have plenty enough to cover it, how about you?"





"a fool and his money are easily parted"

A "fool" is a person who is always joking and doing stupid things. "A fool and his money are easily parted" means that it is easy for a foolish person to lose his money. In this idiom it is "a" fool and "his" money that are easily parted. Example: "How is it that you left home with 20 dollars but you come home with nothing? A fool and his money are easily parted!" If you spend money carelessly and are cheated easily then you are a fool. "A fool and his money are easily parted" says that a foolish person ("a fool") is easily separated ("parted") from his money. Example: "Her husband can't seem to hold onto any amount of money; he either spends it or loses it. A fool and his money are easily parted. "
 
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You guys all shop at walmart don't you! Seriously, we've hijacked the thread enough. If we must continue to banter lets take it to a new thread.
 
Texas Diesel said:
Quote: "I have plenty enough to cover it, how about you?"





"a fool and his money are easily parted"

A "fool" is a person who is always joking and doing stupid things. "A fool and his money are easily parted" means that it is easy for a foolish person to lose his money. In this idiom it is "a" fool and "his" money that are easily parted. Example: "How is it that you left home with 20 dollars but you come home with nothing? A fool and his money are easily parted!" If you spend money carelessly and are cheated easily then you are a fool. "A fool and his money are easily parted" says that a foolish person ("a fool") is easily separated ("parted") from his money. Example: "Her husband can't seem to hold onto any amount of money; he either spends it or loses it. A fool and his money are easily parted. "



It's quite ironic you posted this. In fact that's the way a lot of the money I make is made, from "fools". I wouldn't call them that though, they just pay me way to much for equipment.



Cheers guys, you win this one.
 
Ok... not to take this too far back, but I disconnected the positive leads to the grid heaters and the problem still seems to exist. Do I need to take those big leads off too?
 
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