Guitarists: Help me pick out a new TUBE guitar amp...

[Hohn]

OK. I'm getting sick of the cheap tone of my existing amp, a Peavey Classic 100.

First, it's over powered. 100 watts in a tube head is worthless unless you are playing an arena. With this much power, you can't get the "tube magic" at anything less than earsplitting levels. It also uses EL-84 power tubes, and while I LOVE the sound of these tube usually, they are terrible in this amp. Probably because it's 100W while most 100W amps use 4 big tubes like a 6L6s or EL34s instead of EIGHT weenie little EL84s.

So here's the short list of amps that are looking good:

1) Mesa Boogie Lonestar Special ($1700)
2) VOX AC30 Custom Classic ($1000)
3) Fender Blues Junior ($400)



The Boogie is probably EXACTLY what I want, but there aren't any local to me that I can try. I LOVE the fact that you can select 5W 15W and 30W power level for each channel. PERFECT. Boogies are also built like tanks, and hold up.


The VOX AC30 is a classic 30W amp that needs no introduction. It's probably the most-recorded amp in history,and it sounds magical. I've played one for a couple gigs (it was a rental) and it was beyond incredible for tone. The only problem is that reissue AC30s are a fortune, and all the new ones are made in China, and quality is suspect. Many are bad right out of the box


The Blues Junior is a good little amp, and affordable. But it's chintzy, made in Mexico junk. But it IS tube and sounds pretty decent overall. Reliability is probably suspect. But it would get me into a low-power (15W) TUBE guitar amp with decent tone at reasonable volumes, at relatively low cost. It's also a nice compact 30lb package, compared to the 80lb Behemoth of larger Fenders (like a Twin) and the VOX AC30.


I may be able to get down to Denver and play the Mesa Boogie this Friday. I'm sure it may be my dream amp.

How I'm going to afford a $1800 amplifier is another story, but one with a silver lining. Spending money on music is MUCH more valid, imo, because it's a "lifetime" purchase. You don't have an amp rust out, blow a headgasket, or get in an accident. It's not going to get obsolete like a vehicle does. In short, I can play it when I'm old and gray (like my guitars), long after my truck is history.


I'd appreciate any input from the guitar-playing peanut gallery.

Justin

 

[TxDieselKid]

What type of music, and guitars do you mostly play? Kind of helps.



I am wanting a Twin Reverb RI so bad right now it's not even funny. The one I want is that Custom 15, with the 15" stright from Fender.



Andrew

 

[PC12Driver]

I've been thinking pretty hard about the Carvin Vintage 16. I'm getting tired of hauling the big rig around and that little guy looks like he'll do the trick. I like the switchable output idea (16w/5w) so you can kick the power amp wattage down and still crank the 12AX7s.

 

[Hohn]

What type of music, and guitars do you mostly play? Kind of helps.



I am wanting a Twin Reverb RI so bad right now it's not even funny. The one I want is that Custom 15, with the 15" stright from Fender.



Andrew

Well, I don't play any thrash metal or that stuff. I prefer lower gain tones. The highest gain sounds I want are for Santana style leads, and you need the gain for the sustain (I have a rectifier recording preamp that gives me gain for days).



I play a LOT of blues, and some latino stuff. I also lead worship at church, and I need something that can give me those mainstream CCM tones.



jlh

 

[Hohn]

Oh, and guitars: One Zion thinline tele-style w/ Joe Barden pickups (you've heard them on Danny Gatton recordings). Swamp ash with quilted maple top. It's an amazing guitar.



The other Zion is a strat-style with Chris Kinman pickups. It, too has AMAZING sound. But I only know this because I have had the chance to play them through great amps. I played a VOX AC30 at a gig once, and it had been used the previous night by Third Day. Tone for DAYS. I was playing with Salvador (christian latin rock).



I will also inherit my grandgather's '59 Les Paul Standard w/ PAFs. That thing is amazing.





The guitars I have now are "lifetime" grade-- I don't think I will EVER want to replace them or outgrow them.



The opposite is true for my AMP situation, though. The best sounding amp I've ever actually owned was that stupid Peavey Classic 30, though it burned up 3 times. I've also had a Peavey Stereo Chorus 212 (solid state-- but I didn't know better as a younger guy).



After my Classic 30 died, I picked up this Classic 100 off Ebay, thinking more is better. WRONG!! The 30 sounded good-- the 100 is disappointing. Flat highs, no bass, and just a big midrangey mushy mess. A fender Blues Junior sounds WAY better and it's a cheapo POC supposedly. Worst of all, I have to lug this 80lb head around for the privilege of crappy tone!!



I mean, each Sunday that I lead worship, I have to pack TWO guitars, an 8-space rack case (that holds my Mesa Rectifier Recording Preamp), an 80lb head, a 1x12 cabinet, and a bag of goodies that includes a Line 6 delay modeler, a Fulltone Clyde Wah pedal, a Fulltone SupaTrem pedal, a Tubescreamer, and various sundry cables and crap.





So I've got the guitar and PREamp parts covered. It's the POWER amp part that's missing, and it's a huge gaping hole in the setup.



JH

 

[DRAG DIESEL]

Well, I play a LOT of blues, and some latino stuff. I also lead worship at church, and I need something that can give me those mainstream CCM tones.



jlh

Fender 4-10 Deville hands down... I love it. It makes GREAT tone at a decent low volume, and keeps sounding better all the way up to about 7. I play my Strat with Texas Specials throught it, so yes it sounds like Stevie Ray.



I also have a 1965 Supro Thunderbolt in mint condtion, that is great if you like the vintage single 15" sound... and too many others too list

 

[DRAG DIESEL]

I mean, each Sunday that I lead worship, I have to pack TWO guitars, an 8-space rack case (that holds my Mesa Rectifier Recording Preamp), an 80lb head, a 1x12 cabinet, and a bag of goodies that includes a Line 6 delay modeler, a Fulltone Clyde Wah pedal, a Fulltone SupaTrem pedal, a Tubescreamer, and various sundry cables and crap.

This too gets old, i took a likeing to the Boss GT-3 some time ago... quick setup, and great sound if you play through a great amp. Mainstream christian guitarist are leaning to the new line 6 pod pedal thing, but me and Line 6 don't get along so, i don't know squat about it.

 

[Kissfan113]

I have a 1986 production model Laney AOR Pro Tube Lead, 100 watt, all tube, 4 el34's in the power section and 4 12ax7's in the preamp section, you can get very clean tones and at the same time you can also get monster crunch 80's metal tones if desired. it is a very versitile amp, has boosts on overdrive, treble, mid, and bass, blows marshall, mesa boogie, and almost any big dollar amps i have heard out of the water. You can pick em up on ebay all day for around 350. 00. Things are built like a brick, and very powerful, i bled through a friends phone line from outside his house. worth looking into, but that is just my 2 cents. check out their reviews on harmony-central.com nothing but good experiences from mine.

 

[Hohn]

OK Fellas:

Looking closer at the financials, I'm NOT sure I can afford what I *really* want, so I'm going to try some new things with what I have.

First, an attenuator. I figure a THD Hot Plate should fix my volume problem. It's possible that the Hot Plate will fix my complaints and I will be happy. And if it doesn't, it will still be VERY useful for whatever amp I end up with in the future.

Then I'll dabble with some more EQ before the preamp and after.





Here's an interesting aside: I found the main TONE SUCKER in the rig. It's the Peavey's preamp section. Lord, is it awful! How did I find this out?

Well, I decided to run the output of my Mesa Preamp directly into the Peavey's power section (via the effects loop return). Fortunately, the Peavey's return is active even when there's nothing connected to the "send". The results?

WOW! AWESOME SOUND! THe bottom end is back! It sound fantastic!!

There's only one problem. It's RIDICULOUSLY loud. I have to run the Mesa's output levels so low that they're almost off. In fact, it jumps from off to too loud in the tiniest knob movement.


So, with a power attentuator, I will be able to run the Mesa's output up to where it would "normally" be, and not have so much volume.


Honestly, why can't someone make a really great sounding 1/2 Watt amplifier?? Even the 15W amps I've played have to be cranked up to VERY loud levels to sound good.

Most people don't realize that power and loudness are not direct: it takes TEN times the power to double the loudness. Thus, a 50W and 100W amp are pretty close in loudness, and even a 5W amp is almost as loud as a 100w amp.

From Amptone.com:

Relative to the standard amp power of 50 watts:
50 mW - thousandfold decrease in power (1/8 as loud) 3 orders of magnitude 0. 5 W - hundredfold decrease in power (1/4 as loud) 2 orders of magnitude 5 W - tenfold decrease in power (1/2 as loud) 1 order of magnitude 15 W - threefold decrease in power (about 2/3 as loud) 50 W - unity 100 W - twofold increase in power (maybe 25% louder) 500 W - tenfold increase in power (twice as loud)

1/8 the volume of a 50 watt amp sounds like the level I want to hear. Everyone can agree, 1/8 the volume would be nice. But let's look at the amazing decrease of power that will give this result. A 1/8 decrease in volume amounts to 3 orders of magnitude of power, yielding just 50 mW -- a *thousandfold decrease* in power. *Three* orders of magnitude! A 50 watt amp is *a thousand times too powerful*.

So, step ONE in BOMBING my tone is a Hot Plate. More to come

 

[Hohn]

UPdate: ordered the Hot Plate and an Danelectro EQ pedal.

I'm excited at the possibilities!

 

[Paychk]

Some links:



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=DIY+guitar+amp&btnG=Google+Search

 

[TxDieselKid]

There is a great 1/2 watt amp. HERE IS A LINK



The other option I would look at is a Blackface or silverface, or even a RI Deluxe reverb, but I don't think you'd like the 6v6 if your after Santana type stuff. He uses Dumbles, which are a topic I won't touch, but they are based on Fender blackface amps.

I will also inherit my grandgather's '59 Les Paul Standard w/ PAFs. That thing is amazing.

now THAT is cool. There are a set of PAFs on ebay right now, 21,000 for the set of 2.



I know most this stuff from hanging out at www.Telecaster.com. Great site for guitar stuff, that even is NOT Tele related. Check it out.



Andrew

 

[Hohn]

Santana uses Mesa Boogie (he's actually responsible for the name "Boogie"), Marshall amps, *and* a Dumble. I don't think he uses them all at once, though. He's always used Boogies (back when they were just a hotrodded Bassman circuit in a little Champ chassis, lol), but he's also using other stuff now.

I like Santana's style, but it's next to impossible to cop his TONE with a single coil guitar. I can get closer with my Hamer with P-90s in it, but it's still NOT that close. A Les Paul will come close to his old stuff (because that's what he used then).

I thought that SRV was the only person who loved the Dumbles, but now they are going for a LOT of money. Price one out lately? Good luck getting one <$10K Sick!


As for my grandfather's guitar: I don't know if it's an original or if it's an early reissue. IIRC, Gibson RI the '59 LP starting early in the 80s, and it was one of the first RI they offered. So ID it's a RI, it's still somewhat desirable because of the vintage and the fact so many have offered to buy it from him.

He's been offered a LOT of money for it, and had people constantly offer to buy it, so maybe it's original?? I *do* know that the PAFs in it are identical to the originals, even if it is a RI, so the tone should be there.

I've played it quite a bit, and it's my reference standard for LP tone. Of the hundreds of LPs I've played besides this one, the ONLY one that came close to sounding as good was a Jimmy Page signature model (~$5K new). Then again, Gibson's quality control has been spotty enough to where some Epis sound better than the "real thing" at a MUCH lower price. I've learned that what it says on the headstock matters very little. Heck, I've seen killer tone from $300 Korean junk heap-- but it sounded GREAT!



Lesson learned: shop around more!! I could have gotten the Hot Plate for as low as $225, or off the web for $279, instead of the $300 I paid from Musician's Enemy.

Oh well, I'm not sending it back. When I overpay for something, I keep it as a reminder to do a better job of shopping around