GVW and Liability

[NETim]

We would like to put a nice Lance slide-in camper on the truck. As currently configured, the truck weighs in at about 6500 which leaves roughly 2300 to play with as far as cargo weight.



At one time, we thought the Lance Lite 915 would be the way to go since at the time (2000) Lance listed it at approx 2059 lbs (stock no options).



Now in 2003 I see the Lance Lite has put on a little weight and hit nearly 2400 lbs. (again no options. )



Now I firmly believe the the truck itself is entirely capable of safely carrying more than a 2300 lb camper even if I do have a Dana 70 in back.



Since a Lite will almost certainly put me over and a "real" Lance 10 footer is only about 150 lbs more, why not just go for the gusto and put a 1010 on it.



Now (finally) to the real question, say we are involved in an accident, where do we sit as far as personal liability (read: insurance coverage) if the truck is over GVW? How persnickety are insurance companies over this sort of thing?



Sort of stacks up as a dumb question I know, given the legal climate of current day America, but dang it anyway I got the power, why not have a decent sized truck camper?



I know, shoulda got one with training wheels on it.



Tim

 

[COBRAJET]

If the insurance companies can prove you were over weight cheaper than they can pay for the damage they will. The combo you are proposing looks easy to prove. Most insurance policies claim they are not responsible if you are operating your vehicle in a manner it was not intended for... ie overloaded. You can open yourself up to lawsuits from another party as well. Does this happen all the time... probably not, but handing them a smoking gun is not a good idea. A close relative is in middle management at Safeco Ins. in Seattle and I have talked to him before about this. They WILL deny if they can. My policy from USAA has a bunch of verbage which can get a claim denied and they are generally a very "generous" company. There are very few, if any campers which will legally go in a SRW truck after everything is installed, occupants are in and you are ready to head down the road. I personally would find a truck with "training wheels" or a small trailer versus running overloaded..... CJ

 

[roadranger]

Originally posted by NETim



Since a Lite will almost certainly put me over and a "real" Lance 10 footer is only about 150 lbs more, why not just go for the gusto and put a 1010 on it.



Tim [/B]

I think if you check into it more closely, you'll find that the 1010 comes in a LOT more than 150 lbs over the Lite. They hit somewhere between 3800-4100 lbs in ready to go camping condition. A good rule of thumb is that any camper 10 ft. or over needs to go on a dually.



FYI check out www.eaglecapcampers.com

to see campers nicer than Lances with light weight, no-rot all aluminum frame construction.



My little 8 ft Lance 810 (discontinued full size) is stickered for 2460 lbs at the back door. This is with all options built with, and full of water and propane.

When I got it on a truck scale in ready to camp condition, it weighs in at 3460 lbs!

Those weight stickers don't mean too much!



As for being overweight, I'll bet every 3/4 ton truck with a camper out there is over it's GVW. The factory set GVW is WAY lower than the components' ratings. My '01 2500 has the EXACT same axles,springs,brakes(disc),and frame as the '01 3500, yet it's 2200 lbs less gvw. The tires on the 2500 are load rated heavier than the axle rating.





I feel comfortable to know that my truck is well within the axle and tire load ratings, and it handles well with the upgraded shocks and swaybar.

And I'll fight the insurance company tooth and nail that there is no negligence in operating within component ratings.

 

[COBRAJET]

Insurance negligence is based on the Manufacturer's ratings. It has nothing to do with individual components. The manufacturer knows more about the safety of their ratings than we ever will. If you want to carry more weight than the manufacturer specs the vehicle for you need to have the GVW changed at a local DMV based on mods... . good luck, it is not easy. You also need to pay for tags which equate to the weight you are caring or you are breaking the law there as well. Why do you suppose Dodge rates the 3/4 and 1 ton DRW differently. . as do all the manufacturer's?The SRW is designed to let one tow a heavy trailer without extra "truck weight". The DRW is designed to carry maximum weight in the truck. There are safety issues not just "component ratings" associated with this rating. The DRW is a much better/safer platform than a SRW. Think flat tire on the rear of a SRW. My camper cert which came with the 03 is only 3300lbs. It is a DRW. A reputable dealer should not even install a camper which weighs more than the certificate. He is liable as well.



As said before most of this never comes up. Most of the time nothing happens. I would hate to be flagrantly and knowingly towing beyond the specs and wipe out somebody. They will get more than your teeth and nails... . CJ

 

[BillGotthelf]

In Florida if you are involved in a serious accident (up to and including a fatility) the truck/camper combo will be weighed and if you exceed the manufaturers spec's you will be cited. I would assume if you get cited for this you may have a problem with your insurance company. Other parties involved in accident will have a reason to sue. One of my dump trucks broadsided a small car that failed to yield right of way at stop sign. We had witnesses from all four corners. DOT impounded truck and weighted it, luckily for me truck was 10,000 under weight and weight was balanced. They kept my truck for a week and I had to pay storage charges. Girl in car was in coma for 8 days and within 2 weeks we got letter from attorney. Never went anywhere after attorney checked the facts. On the Fla Turnpike two years ago one of our many tourists visiting Fla was a Ford towing a long fifth wheel. Rearended a line of cars right before the Pompano service plaza. Construction was the real reason but since the truck was overloaded driver was cited and people sued the Ford driver. his insurance company (rhymes with good hands) refused to cover him. Still is a sh-tstorm. I saw pics at my insurance agents office.

 

[BigMike]

Weight issues are probably one of the most frequently discussed issues in the forum. :-{} The liability issue always comes up, yet in my 3 year experience in the forum, I have not heard of anyone yet who has firsthand experience where they or someone they know were involved in an accident, were found to be overweight, and were held liable. Asyou all know, there are thousands and thousands of overweight vehicles out there. Why don't we hear more actual cases of liability? I quit worrying about it, have done everything I can think of to make my truck safe and just go out and enjoy myself. I don't think weight is a safety issue, I think it's a warranty issue.

 

[COBRAJET]

Weight not a safety issue??? It is thinking like that that has thousands of vehicles running down the road overloaded. As I have stated in two previous posts it does not come up often, but it does. I have talked to my brother several times about this and Safeco deals with these claims on a monthly basis. A close friend is an accident investigator for the Dallas Police Dept. He deals with it quite often. He had an F350 impounded a couple of weeks ago that was involved in an accident in the downtown "mixmaster". This clown had 4 custom Astro Vans on a wedge. The combo was in excess of 31Klbs. There are truck combo's both commercial and private running overweight that are in accidents quite often in this area. The County and the State routinely run their portable scales all up and down I-20 in this area. I can hardly drive East on I-20 to Dallas without seeing them out there weighing a commercial vehicle. Why... because it is a saftey issue.



I agree that a properly maintained 1 ton towing a trailer with all the brakes working is a pretty safe combo even if it is slightly overloaded. That still doesn't remove the liability from the operator nor does it keep it on the insurance company. Running overweight can turn you into your own insurance station just like BOMBING can turn you into your own warranty station... CJ

 

[Mingoglia]

I've posted the same drawn out scenario in many newsgroups... I'm going to keep this one to a few sentances 'cause I want to go to bed. A 3/4 ton truck pulling a 8,000lb 5th wheel trailer is probably overweight if they have it properly loaded according to the 25-28% tongue weight rule... especially if it's a long bed quad cab truck. This same 3/4 ton truck pulling a 10,000lb tag-a-long following the 12-15% tongue weight rule is "legal". ***Which one do you want to be next to in an accident avoidence?*** ... doesn't make the former legal I know, but it's something to think about. Hell, there's instances where a half ton truck could tow more than a 3/4 ton full four door long bed truck. If you're not over the component capacity, then a longer wheelbase truck shouldn't be penalized for it's extra weight as it's a much more stable towing platform 'cause of the length (and in many cases it might have the same wheels/brakes as a 1 ton so stopping isn't an issue).



Mike

 

[RustyJC]

One can make all the flowery justifications in the world about component ratings, etc. , but when the lawsuit comes to civil court, which numbers do you think the jury will believe? I'll put my money on the manufacturer's GVWR and GCWR ratings every time. Good luck in convincing a jury that you're smarter than the manufacturer's engineering department, whether you are or not.



Whether the insurance company covers or not may not make much difference - take a look at your per individual and per occurrence liability limits in your policy.



Rusty