GVW and tongue weight

[JGheen]

These are probably obvious and stupid questions but does the GVW rating of a flatbed gooseneck trailer include the weight of the trailer? I just bought a used 20' flatbed gooseneck with a 14K GVW rating and the trailer weighs 4700lbs. That doesn't mean I can only put 9300lbs on the trailer right?



Also, I just installed the Diamond Hitch gooseneck hitch on my '06 MegaCab and was wondering some, probably stupid again, questions about the tongue weight rating. It is 7500lbs and the ball is rated at 30K. Well, if you had a trailer weighing 25K for example, wouldn't you probably be over the tongue weight rating of the hitch? I know most of the 25K would be on the wheels and bed of the trailer but I would say that at least 8-10K would be the tongue weight(vertical load)on the hitch right? I question the tongue weight cuz I will be towing my '98 dually sled puller on the trailer I just bought and the truck weighs about 8100lbs. I am just trying to figure out if I will be pushing that tongue weight rating of my new gooseneck trailer hitch cuz honestly I think I might be with the 8000lb truck on the bed of the trailer.



Thanks, Joe

 

[MacHaggis]

My gooseneck is rated for 14k on the sticker, but the tires are rated for a whisker under 3k apiece. That suggests to me that the mfr cut a corner on the tires and figured 2k on a full load would ride on the hitch. I'd say your limiting factor would be the load rating on your tires.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Joe, you are correct. The GVWR is the total the trailer can weigh when loaded so you have 9300 lbs of capacity before you go over GVWR. This is regardless of installing better springs, tires, etc.

 

[JGheen]

Thanks guys, my tires are load range D and are rated to 2585lbs each so they should be sufficient enough.



What about my tongue weight rating questions? Will I be pushing the vertical load limit of my hitch?



Joe

 

[Foil Freak 1211]

The tongue weight would depend on how you load the trailer. In my experience, tongue weight on a fifth wheel or GN, is around 20% of trailer weight. If you are pulling a 25k trailer, your expected tongue weight would be around 5000 lbs, which is way over the payload capacity of the truck. Then again, the 25k trailer would put you WAY over the GVWR as well.



Whenever in doubt, I would put the rig on a scale to see exactly what the actual weights are.

 

[JGheen]

Well, maybe to keep the tongue weight down I could back the truck up onto the trailer so the heavier part of the truck(front) is sitting on the wheels of the trailer and not on the neck of it. I do need to take the set-up to a scale though and weigh it but for the meantime sounds like I should be fine.



Thanks for the advice guys,



Joe

 

[jelag]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned here... is that axle manufactures rate their axles for what they can hold not including the weight of the axle, nor the weight on the tongue...



We have a couple of trailers with (2) 12K axles under them... each tire on an axle is rated at 3500lbs each... there is 4 tires per axle... . so the tires are OK... . and we've towed it at 22 - 23 K lbs on the axles... . right at what I'd call the limit... . we had to put air bags under the truck to level out the load... . as we had a large amount of weight on the goose neck... . also pay attention to the load rating of the goose neck hitch on the truck and find one rated at, at least 30K lbs.....



We found with this kind of weight that electric brakes were not effective enough so we bought axles with hydralic disc brakes... . something that when you use a brake smart controller and really hit them hard in a panic stop..... you have enough brake to stop the load... .....



One truck, and 04 has 230K miles... . and has been doing this since it was new... I've often posted on this board that this truck hasn't gone a full tank full of fuel with no load on it.....



Hope this helps... .

 

[Foil Freak 1211]

Well, maybe to keep the tongue weight down I could back the truck up onto the trailer so the heavier part of the truck(front) is sitting on the wheels of the trailer and not on the neck of it. I do need to take the set-up to a scale though and weigh it but for the meantime sounds like I should be fine.



Thanks for the advice guys,



Joe

If you have inadequate weight on the tongue, your trailer is much more prone to fish-tail.

 

[tgordon]

Also, I just installed the Diamond Hitch gooseneck hitch on my '06 MegaCab and was wondering some, probably stupid again, questions about the tongue weight rating. It is 7500lbs and the ball is rated at 30K.



If I am understanding correctly 7500 is what the tougne load rating is on the hitch, and the hitch is rated to tow 30,000 lbs. If you have a scale nearby take everything there and try it with the trailer loaded differant ways. Local grain elevator would probably let you do it for a couple bucks if they were not busy and you could work at your leisure if you don't block their business.



Have you ever towed on a trailer before? I have towed tandem single, dual, and triaxles and prefer the duals personally. They are more capacity than my truck can handle but IMHO they tow smoother.

 

[JGheen]

.



Have you ever towed on a trailer before? .

I used to tow a 16' Featherlite flatbed with my dually which I will be now towing. But I towed a '71 Chevy 1/2 ton P/U on that trailer so tongue weight was definatley not an issue. My red dually which I will be now towing is weighing in @ over 3K more than the other truck I used to tow.



Joe

 

[Diesel Dually]

With the truck that will be on the trailer weighing 8100 lbs. and your gooseneck trailer weighing 4700 lbs empty with nothing else on the trailer your total being 12800, your tongue weight will be about 2500 lbs. depending on how you load the trailer. My '05 tows this weight combination quite often and it doesn't touch the overloads except on rather bumpy roads. You won't be anywhere near the hitch rating you quoted. Happy Towing Oo.

 

[JGheen]

With the truck that will be on the trailer weighing 8100 lbs. and your gooseneck trailer weighing 4700 lbs empty with nothing else on the trailer your total being 12800, your tongue weight will be about 2500 lbs. depending on how you load the trailer. My '05 tows this weight combination quite often and it doesn't touch the overloads except on rather bumpy roads. You won't be anywhere near the hitch rating you quoted. Happy Towing Oo.

Thanks Dually, that was some good info I was looking for to the question at hand. I was doing some calculating recently with the 20-25% of the total trailer weight being the tongue weight and I was coming up with anywhere between 2-3K lbs. , so you just confirmed that.



Thanks again, Joe

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

FROM a generally related thread, and for guys curious as to the actual pin weight of their trailers, here's a way to measure it with a common bathroom scale...

Seems lots of 5th wheel owners know the TOTAL weight of their fiver - and the weight of their truck - but FEW seem to have any clue as to the actual pin weight of their trailer - and where they actually are as to the GVWR for their specific truck.



GVWR = Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - weight truck or trailer ALONE can legally weigh.

GVW = Gross vehicle Weight - What the truck or trailer ACTUALLY weighs.

GCWR = Gross Combined Weight Rating - What the truck AND trailer combined can legally weigh, max.



Fact is, you can be WAY over the GVWR for you truck, and still be below the GCWR for that same combo! Take my own 24 foot Kit fiver - using the method outlined below, my pin weight is nearly 1200 lbs. Since my truck loaded weight is 8000 lbs, and is rated at 8800 lbs GVW max, I'm already nearly *400 lbs* over my truck's GVWR even with a seemingly puny 24 foot fiver that weighs less than 7000 lbs loaded!



How overloaded do you think the guys are pulling a 33 foot 5er that weighs 12,000 lbs? :-laf :-laf



Well, having a little extra time on my hands, I decided to try weighing my 24 foot Kit 5er pin weight using the method below.



I used an 8 foot 4x4, resting one end on a steady-rest, placed the 5er pin in exactly 12 inches - and the loading point of the bathroom scales out at the 6 foot mark:

-

THEN, after zeroing the scale, dropped the weight of the 5er onto the 4x4, and THIS is the result:



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196 pounds, times the 6 foot overall length of the 4x4 gives us 1176 lbs. The manufacturers claimed dry pin weight for my trailer is 950 pounds - but I have added a pair of large and heavy golf car batteries up at the front of the 5er, and have 2 full propane tanks there as well - I also have added an air conditioner and full length awning, plus a few other items kept packed inside the trailer for travel - so that pretty well accounts for an added 225 pounds or so - and I also acknowledge that this test was done on slightly uneven ground, so actual weight could be slightly off - but certainly close enough for this purpose...



SO, fact is, I have LOTS of GCWR left - but am well over my truck's GVW...



Have YOU ever actually weighed the pin weight of your 5er - or are you just GUESSING and keeping yer fingers crossed? :-laf