H.O. or no H.O.

[gjacobs]

Can anyone tell me the differance between the 24 valve regular and the 24 valve H. O. ? I know that there is a differance in horsepower and torque but what makes this power differance? I am looking at a '99 with a 6-speed does this mean that it is high output. Can you tell a H. O. by looking at the engine?

 

[DiTrani]

http://dodgeram.org/

http://dodgeram.org/ has the info you want.

 

[rashwor]

'99 w/6speed.

If the truck you are looking at is a '99 model and has the 6speed, it also has the HO engine. The only way you can get a 6speed from '99 - current is with the HO engine. Wish this is what I had.

 

[rubberneck]

not true

some of the early 99 six speeds were in fact the ETC not the ETH or HO motor. we have one around these parts this way. pretty cool set up. you get the six speed plus the ETC motor which rocks for bombing, as the ETC motors respond more to the major fueling boxes. So if you are planning on making gobs of power and want a six speed, this may be a very fine truck to have. When dodge went to the HO motor, they did increase the diameter of the input shaft on the 6 speed to 1&3/8 from 1&1/4. The early 6 speed/ETC combo uses the same clutch as the 5 speeds. just some stuff to think about.



PS. hey rashwor, i dont see any power mods in your sig. Add some injectors and an EZ box, you wont miss that 6th gear anymore, unless you tow really heavy all the time. just my . 02

 

[rashwor]

rubberneck

Thanks for correcting me. You are correct; I remember now. My memory is fading and work is killing me right now. I knew I wanted one of the early 6 speeds when I bought my '99, but I could not find one because they were such limited production and I could not wait (drunk driver totaled my '92 and after a month of paying for a rental car, the drunk's insurance came to see the light and gave me what I said the '92 was worth, just to shut me up (oh, my aching back!)) .



I am in the process of getting gauges now (Dakota Digital). After they are installed and I have a baseline to work from, I will drag the muffler off on a stump and I will be on my way. The process will be slow, as the wife and I are building a new house.

 

[Wiredawg]

I have a 2000 ETC/DEE

Gentlemen:



Can't quote when the ETH was the only engine you could get with the 6 spd, but my 2000 has an ETC in it. Works real good and I'm happy with it.



I don't think you can go wrong with an ETH/DEE. I installed a TST PM-3 adjustable in his and it rocks.



To answer your question, I think the Vin number would indicate the engine intalled. I don't have my factory manual handy; it has the code that indicates which engine is installed. Might also be on the config tag. Mine is stuck inside the glove compartment.



Wiredawg

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

The ETH/DEE has...



A higher pressure and volume VP44 inj pump with a hotter fueling curve

Smaller injectors( acieves hp w/the higher pressure)

17:1 vs 16:1 compression ratio

a 13" clutch

6spd



The ETC responds better to bombing and gets a little better mileage.



The ETH has a better transmission. and pulls better stock due to the extra gear.



both end up near the same hp after injectors and a fueling box.



I love my ETH. You can't go wrong with either.

 

[DMoody]

I believe the HO ETH first became available as a 2001 model with the first ones delivered in Feb 2000. The 6 speeds in the 1999 and 2000 model years had the ETC with the 1 1/4 input shaft.



I have been happy with my ETH. Very good mileage and with just the EZ it seems to have lots of power. It is already slipping the clutch at full throttle in 5th and 6th gears. Can't use any more power without a new clutch. I think that the ETH with the EZ puts out more power than the ETC with the EZ.

 

[Idaho CTD]

Would this work?

I was thinking about this subject a lot today and had a brain storm. Muddymess, a tdr/nwbombers member is ordering a new '02 and was having second thoughts due to my temp probs with my eth. He wants a 6spd and tows a 5er. So back to my brain storm/f**t, could he order a etc, saving the 1200. 00 difference, and buy a nv5600 to put in it. If he was to buy a southbend clutch with it he could put them all in at the same time. He could also sell the nv4500 to recoop some of the cost. If I were to do it I would do the swap as soon as it hit the driveway. I dont know what the cost of the nv5600 is but it would seem that he wouldn't be out much or any $$ if he sold the nv4500(especially if it had 20 or so miles). How hard is this swap and is there anything needed to do it that costs big $$$. IMO this would be the best of both worlds. Lower egt's and about equal results from bombs. By the way he also wants to put dd2's and an ez or comp box in. The only other question is will dodge void your engine/truck warranty because of it? Sorry for the rambling but I was curious.



Nathan

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

once you remove the transmission and transfer case for the swap the transfer case warranty will be voided.



I have used the warranty on the transfer case... the seals go bad.



I have no temp problems. the only real problems I have had have been associted with the transmission and transfer case.



All covered under warranty.



Something to think about. the NV4500 have seals go bad too. It's sorta nice to drop it off and tell them to fix it and not worry about the cost.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Idaho CTD, instead of putting the $$ into a transmission swap I think any potential temp problems can be addressed with a 4" exhaust and a turbo upgrade. Not only will the temp issue be addressed but you'd have better drivability plus the added room to add more HP. Not all ETH engines have temp problems. When I was thinking about adding DD2s to my truck there were not very many guys that had them yet and DD cautioned me to be careful and watch the temps. Well with the DD2s I don't have a temp issue, it is hard to get it past 1100, and with a bigger exhaust now I have to push it pretty hard to get past 1200 (preturbo) after adding the van Aaken.



The consensus I have seen regarding BOMBability of the ETC vs ETH is the ETH tends to make more HP given equal injectors or "mild" boxes, hoever it seems to reach a HP ceiling at a lower HP level than the ETH when you start doing the more serious boxes or combining them.



While I think it would be cool to have an ETC/DEE I am happy with my ETH. Other than poor idle quality since new it has been a healthy one. It put down 245hp on BD's old dyno when it was new and did 355 with just DD2 injectors and van Aaken box this past weekend at Dyno Day. Cumulative mileage over the last 20,000 miles is just above 19. 5 mpg with a lot of miles running around town.



Vaughn

 

[Idaho CTD]

Mark,

I know he doesn't want to part with 1600. 00 or so for the B1. I really dont want to either. I would try to do my own twins first. He has a exhaust brake for the back of the turbo is why. I put a lot of miles on in a year (+/- 80k) so the seals usually dont go bad until after my warranty runs out . I did replace a transmission seal at 26k when the clutch went in. I paid it myself cuz it was already in the shop and the $ was minimal. How well do the under/overdrives last? That might be an option too. Save 1200 spend 1800 or so .



Nathan

 

[Idaho CTD]

ETH temps

Vaughn,

I have both 4" exhaust and a PDR hx-40 and my temps soar with just my injectors. I have a tst pm3 as well and I cant use it at all when towing. I just put my dd2's in and I towed my 20 flatbed trailer(about 6k) up here to Spokane and hit 1240* over the Blues with just the injectors. I think my LP is going cuz it slowed me down off of my cruise setting, which doesn't usually happen, and my boost was down (22psi max vs 29 with just 275's and hx-35). Also, when I ran it empty with my box on 9 I got hardly any smoke even at low boost. My FP guage is on backorder so I cant test it myself. When I was using a '99 etc for work I could run my powermax 2 all the time and never get above 1200* pulling a trailer except if I had to drop off of cruise and get back into it. Then the temps would soar. If on cruise the truck would slow down before it went above 1200*. With my present work truck I have hit 1200+, in stock form, just getting on the freeway. With just the 275's it was 1300+. I have hit some high temps(1300) in wyoming with just the injectors (275's) an empty truck, and a tail wind @ 75mph.



Nathan

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Nathan, how well does your ETH build boost and how high does it go? Maybe you have a boost leak somewhere? It could be mine would run as hot as yours if I towed like you do. . . I rarely tow and when I do it's not over 6K. Also it is possible my gauge reads low, who knows.



Vaughn

 

[Idaho CTD]

Vaughn,

Before I had piers rework the turbo I could hit 36psi(box on 9) but the lag sucked for towing. After the rework I think the most I have seen was 33lbs but the truck just doesn't have the same power. The turbo spools fast but it doesn't set you back in the seat like before. I use to get 29lbs with the 275's and hx-35. Add the pm3 and i'd see 36lbs. The only thing I have changed on the boost side is the turbo. The connection went together just like the first time I had it on. Piers didn't set the wastegate so it should build the same boost. Also I have a 4x4 with two tool boxes , oxy-acet. tanks, ladder rack,etc. in the truck. I would bet money it is the LP. What happens when it goes, other then the loss of power? I have been getting a funny vibration pulling hills.



Nathan

 

[RustyJC]

Regarding the temperature "problem" of the stock ETH/DEE -



Stock:

Max pre-turbo EGT - 1300 degF

Max boost - 22 psig

Towing fuel economy - 10 mpg



With EZ, boost elbow, 4" exhaust, BHAF

Max pre-turbo EGT - 1100 degF

Max boost - 32 psig

Towing fuel economy - 11 mpg



Mid-range torque is also greatly improved - Texas Hill Country grades that required 5th gear and WOT when towing (55 mph) are now taken in 6th gear at 1/2-2/3 throttle (65-70 mph).



Rusty

 

[Okie-Go]

Get the HO and be done with it.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by Idaho CTD

Mark,

I know he doesn't want to part with 1600. 00 or so for the B1. I really dont want to either. I would try to do my own twins first. He has a exhaust brake for the back of the turbo is why. I put a lot of miles on in a year (+/- 80k) so the seals usually dont go bad until after my warranty runs out . I did replace a transmission seal at 26k when the clutch went in. I paid it myself cuz it was already in the shop and the $ was minimal. How well do the under/overdrives last? That might be an option too. Save 1200 spend 1800 or so .



Nathan

the $1700 is well spent.



I hit 45psi of boost and egts are no problem. no real lag issues but faster is always better.



I'm puttin in a cam that should help spool up, lower egt's, quiet the engine a bit , and increase economy while increasing HP... .

It's a stretch I know. the trick will be trying to keep the foot off the firewall



My goals have always been towable performance. 500+ hp is available with injectors, fueling boxes and nitrous.



I want the power to pull a freight train up a 10% grade and not worry too much about EGTs. I don't ask for much do I???



The trick to EGT management is lots of cool boost and it ain't cheap. the B1 is the best thing running w/o using twins. twins start at $3k and require other mods to keep stuff going reliably.



Give me a call and I can elaborate on some of the nuances a little better. There are some neat toys and tons of power availabe.



I like the ETH. it should come from the factory with at least a SBC Con OFe. so that it'll take a few mods before needin a clutch.



He'll be happy with either one. There will be advantages to the ETH that are not appearant right now.



Later,

Mark

 

[Wiredawg]

One last thought!

just for the sake of conversation...



If DC offered an ETC/DEE AND an ETH/DEE, I would go with the ETC engine and use the money saved towards bombing.



A friend has an ETH/DEE with EZ-Comp and 275s. I have TST PM-3 Adjustable and 275s. Dyno results as follows:



ETH/DEE 315. 4 HP/668 Ft Lbs TQ

ETC/DEE 315. 3 HP/774 Ft Lbs TQ



So, you can see we're pretty close. I'm reckon the EZ-Comp and TST PM-3 Adjustable are comparable.



Anyone else like to add their thoughts?



Wiredawg

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

My ETH/DEE w/ Edge Comp and DD3s made 377/891. Well worth the stage 3 injectors and the HO engine option.



the real question is does he want another gear, not weather or not he wants one engine over the other.



I really like my NV5600 and wouldn't trade it.



though an Allison World would be nice... but that's for another thread