Hanging idle after NEW injectors and tubes no codes

[Darkbloodmon]

03 HO NV5600 217,989K
Near stock: Fass 95 SS CAT 175-2949, CAT 1R-0750, CAI with Amsoil Filter and prefilter, BBI stage .1 with OEM Bosch tubes, Amsoil filter and bypass, No tuning or programming/Stock map. NO Gauges (I really need some for things like this)

This truck had 207K miles on it when I got it with a stock 7micron fuel filter and a FASS DDRP lift pump, It's had two sets of injectors before me I believe as the ones I took out were dated 8/10 on the body. It's had a hanging idle since around 214K or so, No issues what so ever starting or any smoke just a hanging idle from 1K or so when coming to a stop, All sensors related to fuel delivery and injection are OEM (17 years old). There is always an 11oz lube cocktail at every fill up.

This is two days post the BBI injectors and tubes install, torque specs and procedure pulled from an 03 service manual from Geno's, Brand new Tekton torque wrenches used on this install (didn't have any previously for the job just a large 250ft.lb). Put on brand new CAT filters pre Install, lift pump bleed.

Install was flawless (God bless the Cummins engineer who made the rear lift bracket a swing arm for cyl 6), no hiccups, brake cleaned all the lines and cleared them with compressed air as well as the tubes and rail (Venturi effect). After torquing the tubes to 37 ft.lb and the injectors to 89in.lb I went over the connector tube nuts again to verify as well as the injector hold downs. Got a bit more turn on the nuts much less than a quarter. Valve lash was adjusted while I was in there, All rockers torqued to 27ft.lb and nuts to 18ft.lb.

After the smoke cleared and a test drive I love the injectors no issues at all throughout the RPM range, down shift blips are more responsive and controlled. But I still have a hanging idle (no surge) when I come to a stop. My accelerator pedal moves freely with no binding, I haven't tried an APP re-learn yet, (key on, One full pedal depression). Suggestions going forward?

 

[DonFitzwater]

What is your rail pressure at a normal idle compared to the hanging idle? Have you replaced the FCA? Also, I feel you are wasting money on additives. I stopped using additives back in 2007 and have completely stopped having injector problems. YMMV

 

[Darkbloodmon]

What is your rail pressure at a normal idle compared to the hanging idle? Have you replaced the FCA? Also, I feel you are wasting money on additives. I stopped using additives back in 2007 and have completely stopped having injector problems. YMMV

I'd have to see if I could get a scanner to pick up rail pressure, I have a blue driver but i'd have to look into that. Would an auto parts store scanner pick it up?

I've not replaced the FCA yet.

I don't mind using the additives I currently have some 10W-30 Hydraulic Tractor oil, Euro spec 5W-30, 20W-50 V twin, Valvoline 5W-20, and a bottle of diesel clean and water treatment mixed together in a 5G bucket. It's nothing expensive just what I had laying around.

 

[Bob4x4]

Nothing but clean diesel is needed in the Crd engines,unless you are trying to fix a condition.

 

[DonFitzwater]

I'd have to see if I could get a scanner to pick up rail pressure, I have a blue driver but i'd have to look into that. Would an auto parts store scanner pick it up?

I've not replaced the FCA yet.

I don't mind using the additives I currently have some 10W-30 Hydraulic Tractor oil, Euro spec 5W-30, 20W-50 V twin, Valvoline 5W-20, and a bottle of diesel clean and water treatment mixed together in a 5G bucket. It's nothing expensive just what I had laying around.

Your homemade Brew is going to destroy your fuel system. The high pressure common rail injection systems have very tight tolerances and high pressure which when combined with solids like those in motors oils will scour and damage the injector and pump internals leading to premature failure.

Most auto parts store scanners are low buck and won’t do what you are needing.

 

[BigPapa]

some 10W-30 Hydraulic Tractor oil, Euro spec 5W-30, 20W-50 V twin, Valvoline 5W-20, and a bottle of diesel clean and water treatment mixed together in a 5G bucket.

That’s crazy. Why do you feel you need to add this to your fuel?

 

[seafish]

... I currently have some 10W-30 Hydraulic Tractor oil, Euro spec 5W-30, 20W-50 V twin, Valvoline 5W-20, and a bottle of diesel clean and water treatment mixed together in a 5G bucket. It's nothing expensive just what I had laying around.

I hope that you are being sarcastic here !!!

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Your homemade Brew is going to destroy your fuel system. The high pressure common rail injection systems have very tight tolerances and high pressure which when combined with solids like those in motors oils will scour and damage the injector and pump internals leading to premature failure.

Most auto parts store scanners are low buck and won’t do what you are needing.

I understand the precision clearances of common rail injection, but you're telling me the fuel needs no additional lubrication? More specifically NC piedmont fuel.

My brew still goes through a 2 micron final filter so what is the harm?

I'll give it a shot since im waiting on an FCA from Geno's and I have to drop my tank for a patch. I keep a driving/repair log every time I install something and key on and off. I'll cross reference my logs to when I about started using fuel additives for lube versus no lube on the next few fill ups before replacing the FCA.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

That’s crazy. Why do you feel you need to add this to your fuel?

I don't "feel" I need to add it, I think I do because of the lower lubrication properties of ULSD. I didn't think fuel additive lubrication on CTD was as controversial as pre-filling or not your oil filters.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

I hope that you are being sarcastic here !!!

No, I'm serious.

 

[Mark31]

If you had added the eye of a frog to ferment in the 5 gal for a week before using it, you would have the perfect brew

 

[DonFitzwater]

If you had added the eye of a frog to ferment in the 5 gal for a week before using it, you would have the perfect brew

Now that is funny!

 

[DonFitzwater]

I understand the precision clearances of common rail injection, but you're telling me the fuel needs no additional lubrication? More specifically NC piedmont fuel.

My brew still goes through a 2 micron final filter so what is the harm?

I'll give it a shot since im waiting on an FCA from Geno's and I have to drop my tank for a patch. I keep a driving/repair log every time I install something and key on and off. I'll cross reference my logs to when I about started using fuel additives for lube versus no lube on the next few fill ups before replacing the FCA.

Correct, your modern engine needs no additives to run ulsd fuel. This is a misconception caused by lack of understanding and knowledge of modern fuel systems. Lots of people mistakenly add things to their fuel.

 

[cerberusiam]

Correct, your modern engine needs no additives to run ulsd fuel. This is a misconception caused by lack of understanding and knowledge of modern fuel systems.

Unfortunately, that statement proves just how outdated and contradictory it is. The Dodge\Cummins\Bosch group have completely negated any argument about additives by issuing a fuel quality requirement the for all intents and purposes REQUIRES additives and extra filtration to meet the spec. It is no longer, has not been for years, conjecture that the "engine needs no additives to run on ULSD" statement is inherently wrong.

Back to the OP's problem, nothing new there either. A hanging idle with a manual truck is more the norm than an exception, especially with the 03 and early 04 years. The ECM and programming was extremely limited which led to some glitches in the TQ management with the manual trucks. There should be a TSB that attempts to address that. The results on the flash were sometimes not always completely effective, but, in some case it did solve the problem. If everything else looks good form a scanner and some of the cheaper, easier to replace components do not address it then a flash would my next step.

 

[AH64ID]

I don't mind using the additives I currently have some 10W-30 Hydraulic Tractor oil, Euro spec 5W-30, 20W-50 V twin, Valvoline 5W-20, and a bottle of diesel clean and water treatment mixed together in a 5G bucket. It's nothing expensive just what I had laying around.

Those aren’t additives, they are mostly oils designed NOT to burn.

You know what a set of injectors costs... and yet you’re putting that brew in your tank?!



2 micron isn’t a rating that has existed in over a decade. The best filters these says are 3um. The FF5814 is what I would run over the 4um cat. The FF5814 has media designed for HPCR systems, while the Cat is older technology.

I ran the Cat for years, but it’s no longer at the top of the filter list.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Unfortunately, that statement proves just how outdated and contradictory it is. The Dodge\Cummins\Bosch group have completely negated any argument about additives by issuing a fuel quality requirement the for all intents and purposes REQUIRES additives and extra filtration to meet the spec. It is no longer, has not been for years, conjecture that the "engine needs no additives to run on ULSD" statement is inherently wrong.

Say what you like, I stopped using additives way back when and my injector problems ceased. I also have a thicker wallet. YMMV.

 

[cerberusiam]

I am not saying it, the manufacturer of your truck and its critical components is saying it. You may have a thicker wallet now, it will be LOT thinner when a problem manifests. A decent additive package costs pennies compared to major engine work due to fuel contamination, it really is cheap insurance against those things one has little control over. To each his own, but, blindly repeating and representing directly contradictory opinion is not exactly helpful either. As you say, "lack of understanding and knowledge of modern fuel systems" can have more than one application.

As for the OP's additive mix, not recommended other than the actual diesel additive. On the other hand, how detrimental and how long to see detrimental effects from a 300-400:1 mix would be a question. Dead easy to add enough gasoline or DEF by mistake, or, just get a load of crap fuel that would be far more detrimental than his mix. A straight weight non-detergent oil or 2SO would be more acceptable than any multi-grade or hydraulic oil. WVO, filtered engine oil, and even biodiesel can be just as detrimental and they still run them as needed in parts of the world.

 

[DonFitzwater]

I am not saying it, the manufacturer of your truck and its critical components is saying it. You may have a thicker wallet now, it will be LOT thinner when a problem manifests. A decent additive package costs pennies compared to major engine work due to fuel contamination, it really is cheap insurance against those things one has little control over. To each his own, but, blindly repeating and representing directly contradictory opinion is not exactly helpful either. As you say, "lack of understanding and knowledge of modern fuel systems" can have more than one application.

Like I said, say what you want. I have hundreds of thousands of miles without an injector failure and the only thing I changed was ceasing the use of additives which were recommended by Bosch who built injectors that wore out prematurely and cracked bodies with alarming frequency. Perhaps they just improved their components. Contaminated fuel doesn’t magically get better by adding a fuel system additive.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

You guys were right about the additive,thanks for the clarification. I picked up apox. 2 mpgs city since I've stopped using it, My logs correspond to when I started Early June 2019 as to the decrease in mpgs with use.

I just replaced the FCA this morning before running some errands, still having a hanging idle, although my down shift throttle blips are more controlled, My rpm don't shoot as high for the same amount of input.

What other options do I have going forward for tracking down this hanging idle?

 

[cerberusiam]

Get the ECM flashed for the idle hang that was a problem on that year of truck.