Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Hard shifting 5600

[mymtnhauler]

This is kind of hard to explain here! My 02 4X4 with 141,000 on the clock, won't shift into 1st. 2nd. or revers unless I shift into 3rd. or fourth. It does not matter if the trans is cold or hot. #@$%! The problem dose not happen all the time, or when getting a load started from a stop, just when maneuvering the truck in tight places! It hasn't stranded me yet!!! :{

 

[JKreiss]

I wish i could do more to help, all i can say is i feel your pain. I've been dealing with this for about the last 40k miles (got 150k now). There's been some suggestions on here that have helped, most noticeably was pushing the clutch all the way in, waiting a sec, then putting it into second. It used to be impossible sometimes to get into gear, and at some lights i'd have a line of cars behind me and it get VERY frustrating. It seams ever year or so i have to find a new way to drive this truck. I'd change your fluid, and try shifting to second after deliberately pushing in the clutch all the way, waiting a sec then going into gear. Try that for starters. It's helped me A LOT.

 

[HBarlow]

The NV-5600 is a truck transmission and does occasionally require shifting into a higher gear before engaging first or reverse but it sounds like your clutch is not fully releasing or the pilot bushing is worn out and spinning the input shaft even when the clutch is fully disengaged.

I think you should plan on a transmission removal and inspection. You may need an entire new clutch assembly but the transmission if probably fine.

 

[SRath]

Like Harvey said, the stock pilot bearing is not known for longevity, especially in dusty conditions. If it is seizing, it can damage the input shaft where it rides, and that can get expensive. It should be upgraded to a fully sealed bearing. A worn clutch can also cause shifting difficulties, as can a contaminated one.



Semis have clutch brakes to enable shifting into gear from a stop. The surest sign of a truck that has been abused by rookie drivers is a worn out or out of adjustment clutch brake and it is truly aggravating. I have gotten in trucks where it was so bad, the truck had to be shut off at stoplights, shifted into gear, then restarted. The clutch brake stops the input shaft of the trans from spinning when the pedal is momentarily pushed all the way to the floor. Trouble is, you get ignorant drivers who always push it to the floor and hold it there at traffic lights and kill it fast or they engage it at speed (when it's not needed) when up or down shifting by always pushing the pedal to the floor and that really destroys it.



Your truck does not have a clutch brake, (an NV5600 is big enough it almost should) but a worn/seizing pilot bearing would cause very similar symptoms as Harvey pointed out. It doesn't affect you so much when shifting normally since the synchros, or double-clutching, will compensate. But at a dead stop, or when maneuvering as you described, it will be a major pita.



Letting it go will only cause more wear and expense to a transmission for which there is an extremely limited availablity of parts. I, too, would suggest it may be clutch replacement time and that you replace that pilot bearing with an upgraded sealed one and that you strongly consider replacing your rear main seal at the same time.



Here is some info and suggested upgrade options Dodge Engine & Clutch



You could also call the folks at Southbend or other reputabe clutch company and they would likely have even greater expertise in diagnosing likely causes and cures. But don't let it continue unless you want an NV5600 with offshore low quality parts in it, which are about all that's available anymore.

 

[SWC]

I would follow the advice of SRath and HBarlow.

I had a similar issue and chose to ignore the symptoms. When I did check the clutch I had to replace the input shaft on the the NV5600.

If you need a new clutch, check Southbend clutchs and flywheels. They have a bearing not just a bushing.

Stan

 

[JKreiss]

I never had any symptoms of a clutch problem, even had it checked out by 2 diesel shops. They told me that's just the way they can be sometimes. By all means if you've got the money and the time, drop the transmission and inspect/replace the clutch and components. I think you just may be rushing your shift transfers too much. Mine was doing the same exact thing, and it's remarkably better now.

 

[Grizzly]

I have an NV5600 and have never had a problem with hard shifting, however some do have that problem and some don't. It's a characteristic of a 5600. I've heard say that changing fluid with OEM may help.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

Change transmission oil to OEM FIRST. I have seen both Old oil and incorrect oil cause hard shifting in the 5600. It has to do with the syncros not engaging correctly. This is the easy check, I too would assume that your clutch is not disengaging all the way, or the pilot is going.

 

[ILIANBG]

I had issues with my transmission. 1st was really hard to engage, especially after truck warmed up. Reverse was also hard to shift into. I ended up installing a new clutch, new flywheel with a real bearing, not a needle bearing like the OEM. My OEM needle bearing was bad. OEM clutch disk and flywheel looked almost new at around 110000 miles.
Ilian

 

[Grizzly]

I had issues with my transmission. 1st was really hard to engage, especially after truck warmed up. Reverse was also hard to shift into. I ended up installing a new clutch, new flywheel with a real bearing, not a needle bearing like the OEM. My OEM needle bearing was bad. OEM clutch disk and flywheel looked almost new at around 110000 miles.

Ilian

Does it shift better now?

 

[TMorgan1]

I have had the same problem until I overfilled the transmission by 2 quarts with the recommended Amsoil fluid. Check with Standard Transmission and they do the same thing. I thought I was having clutch issues until I did this and have had no problems since. Hopefully this might be a cheaper fix than a clutch etc. I have tried the OEM and the recommended Pennzoil fluid and the Amsoil worked for me and it has lasted several thousand miles so far. I just hope it continues... .....

 

[ILIANBG]

Grizzly,
It shifts a lot better now. No problem going into 1st , reverse, any gear. But the transmission has some noises and vibration that was not there before. O... , it's a long story... I still suspect the shop that did the install screwed up something. truck drove awful. It was about 50 miles from my home, and I had to drive it home. They said it was all good install , suspected bad part ... I got another new set sent, they changed it again, and there was an enormous difference. Then they saidwhen they were on the phone with the clutch people who asked the shop to check the input shaft, they noticed an excessive play, and since then I have these noises and vibrations at lower speed cruising before stopping, that I did not have before. I was told that the bad OEM pilot bearing caused that play, and was not noticeable with the old clutch and flywheel, but when new set was installed, all was apparent. My OEM flywheel and clutch disc looked great, no hot spots, bad glazing, nothing... So I still suspect that the 100 drive with the 1 set did something bad to the transmission. The shop will never admit that, and I do not know what the clutch co. found out when they tested the returned part. I wish I knew. But what was I supposed to say when both the shop owner and the main guy at the clutch company said they went over everything and all was good during the install. I did not have to pay for the second labor charge- it was taken care of by the clutch company. I'm thankful for that. But still, I know that I have to be saving money to have it rebuilt one day, hopefully not that soon.
So, there it is. Shifts good now... maybe as good as when I bought it brand new.
Ilian

 

[HBarlow]

A careless or inexperienced mechanic can cause a lot of very expensive damage with the 400+ pound NV-5600 transmission if he is sloppy in the way he goes about stabbing the pilot shaft into the clutch disk and flywheel. Unfortunately the consumer often has no way of evaluating the skill and integrity of a shop until after his work has been done.

 

[GCroyle]

A careless or inexperienced mechanic can cause a lot of very expensive damage with the 400+ pound NV-5600 transmission if he is sloppy in the way he goes about stabbing the pilot shaft into the clutch disk and flywheel. Unfortunately the consumer often has no way of evaluating the skill and integrity of a shop until after his work has been done.

Harvey,



I'm agreeing with you 100% on your comment. I thinks sometimes that a clutch installation is seen as "its just a clutch" and may not get the respect it deserves. I found a YouTube video of a Ranger transmission installation. It was being done in the parking lot with the trans on the "techs" belly, no jack of any kind. Trans was being "crudely" stabbed. Kicker was that this Ranger belonged to an automotive supply company delivery truck.



We had a claim submitted against us for a GM flywheel that the shop stated was "machined on the wrong side" the returned F/W has a complete set of bolt head witness marks on the engine side of the F/W. They installed it backwards on the engine. We hung the part up for show and tell.



In short, it is often attention to detail and skill level that determines the outcome.

 

[DMather]

At around 350,000 miles I started experiencing all of the same symptoms. Put in a new nv5600, clutch, throwout,pilot, clutch pivot, clutch hydraulics... . tried all the different fluids in the transmission. . overfilled, etc. In other words, I tried everything and anything to make that darn thing go into gear and shift smoothly.

The best I had obtained was to just hold gentle pressure on the shifter, while shifting, and eventually it would go into gear.



Now..... I told you that... to tell you this.



The latest issue of TDR arrived and as I was reading the article on the harmonic damper I got to wondering. The article made a passing comment about difficulty shifting. I immediately went and examined mine. (yes, I had been neglecting that like most people. ) Drat! Mine looked just fine.



But. . I reasoned that at my high mileage, the truck being almost 10 years old and it would be something "shiny" on the truck I ordered a Fluidampr just to see. (it's "only" a couple a bunch of C-notes, right?)



The Fludampr arrived yesterday, I installed it immediately ( about 30 minutes to remove belt, unbolt 4 bolts, remove old damper and install new one)



Result? I put almost 200 miles on the truck last night driving around I was having so much fun. It was like a new truck. I can shift with two fingers!!! And... a vibration that has bugged me for many thousands of miles is gone. Whodathunk?



A post-mortem on the original damper showed that, even though it look fine, the elastomer (rubber) was intact and in place, it had stopped being elastic. It was almost brittle. As such, it would the damper wasn't a damper anymore. It was just a small flywheel.

 

[jeepit]

At around 350,000 miles I started experiencing all of the same symptoms. Put in a new nv5600, clutch, throwout,pilot, clutch pivot, clutch hydraulics... . tried all the different fluids in the transmission. . overfilled, etc. In other words, I tried everything and anything to make that darn thing go into gear and shift smoothly.

The best I had obtained was to just hold gentle pressure on the shifter, while shifting, and eventually it would go into gear.



Now..... I told you that... to tell you this.



The latest issue of TDR arrived and as I was reading the article on the harmonic damper I got to wondering. The article made a passing comment about difficulty shifting. I immediately went and examined mine. (yes, I had been neglecting that like most people. ) Drat! Mine looked just fine.



But. . I reasoned that at my high mileage, the truck being almost 10 years old and it would be something "shiny" on the truck I ordered a Fluidampr just to see. (it's "only" a couple a bunch of C-notes, right?)



The Fludampr arrived yesterday, I installed it immediately ( about 30 minutes to remove belt, unbolt 4 bolts, remove old damper and install new one)



Result? I put almost 200 miles on the truck last night driving around I was having so much fun. It was like a new truck. I can shift with two fingers!!! And... a vibration that has bugged me for many thousands of miles is gone. Whodathunk?



A post-mortem on the original damper showed that, even though it look fine, the elastomer (rubber) was intact and in place, it had stopped being elastic. It was almost brittle. As such, it would the damper wasn't a damper anymore. It was just a small flywheel.

Hmmm... . This sounds promising.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Hmmm. Very interesting that it did make a difference.

Would not have thought of the damper until I read that article. Glad there is truth to it!

Robert

 

[ILIANBG]

DMather,
how hard was the installation of the Fluidamper? Did you have to remove anything to install it? Is it true there is no way to replace the belt with the damper in place? I do not like that. What if the belt fails on the road? How am I going to install the new belt I have under the seat?
I'm glad that there is such a noticeable difference. I might think of installing one in the future, but might be the ATI if the belt is really a problem to install with the Fluidamper.
Can someone please post.
I listened again yesterday, and it appears to be just a noise, no vibration, and seems to only be heard when shifted out of gear coasting(no trottle) before stop (when the engine noise is less). I'm going to change the oil in the transmission soon.
Ilian

 

[jeepit]

There is a tensioner that you put a rachet on to relieve the belt tension and slip it off. A belt can be changed in 5 minutes.

 

[DMather]

DMather,

how hard was the installation of the Fluidamper? Did you have to remove anything to install it? Is it true there is no way to replace the belt with the damper in place?

Ilian

Very easy. (it was in my original post but I will elaborate)



The belt can be changed with the Fluidampr in place, just like the original.



Everything is done from under the vehicle. (this is on my 2002)



Verify engine is not running :-laf



1. Using 3/8" breaker bar move belt tensioner and remove belt from A/C compressor. (or any easily accessed pulley. )

2. Remove belt from damper.

3. Remove 4 bolts holding the original damper in place.

4. Remove original damper.

5. Clean up the nose of the crankshaft with scotch brite pad.

6. Install new damper.

7. Install 4 new bolts (usually included)

8. Torque bolts as specified in included instruction sheet

9. Loop belt onto new damper

10. Using 3/8" breaker bar move the tensioner and replace the belt on the A/C compressor, check belt alignment on all pulleys and release tensioner.



Done