Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) hard starting revisited

[Piersol]

My 1996 CTD with 155,000 miles is becoming hard to start. It cranks fast but takes about 3 tries of 5 seconds to start. Once it starts it runs perfectly. Giving it some throttle has no effect. I took apart the overflow valve and stretched the spring a little bit (80,000 miles old) with no help. After trying to start it and leaving the key on I looked at the fuel solenoid and it was in the up position. I think my return line or heater line are going bad(original) but the engine can be driven an hour and if I shut it off for 5 minutes it will do this. Can the lines suck air that fast? Did i rule out a solenoid and relay problem if the solenoid is in the up position after trying to start it? And lastly, Can bad fuel cause this problem? I can't be sure but i think it started a day or two after filling the tank.

 

[Joe G.]

Do a search on air leaks in this forum to find all the possible air leakers. Yes, the fuel hoses can suck air that fast. If they are the originals, you will need to change them even if they are not the problem. They will be a problem sooner or later if not this time.

 

[PKirby]

My 12 valve had the same problem. All my hoses were new. I noticed a slow drip at the overflow valve so I tightened it. That solved my problem.

 

[Piersol]

OK guys, I went to take the truck to the dealership tonight and it started and bellowed blue smoke backed out of the driveway and it just died and now won't start. Do you suspect lift pump?

 

[Joe G.]

The lift pump is the least likely thing that could cause your problem. It is also the most expensive part in the fuel supply system. Did you check out the system? Fittings, fuel heater, and pre-filter? Just looking at them won't tell you anything because you can't see an air leak. You have to test.

 

[JPittinger]

My lift pump screwed me a few weeks ago. Suddenly lost prime like the fuel hose fell off, but when I went to push the primer button (1,000+ times), I couldn't get it to pump. After replacing the lift pump, I tore apart the old one- One of the check valves cracked and the piece of metal wedged itself inside the pump, blocking the checkvalve open.



Although uncommon, lift pumps can go bad. At least check to see if it will give you enough pressure to make your overflow valve 'whistle'.

-JJ

 

[Joe G.]

I've heard of some of them failing like that. They can also have a broken spring. Pretty rare. If there is an air leak ahead of the lift pump it will not always prime either. I had that happen with a bad fuel heater. I could push the button all I wanted. No pressure. I had decided that the lift pump was bad, but made one more test using a bucket of water. That found the bad fuel heater. See the pictures of it in my Reader's Rigs gallery. Test all the cheap stuff that is more likely to fail first.

 

[The patriot]

Do you have a gauge, is the FP good?

If you do a search under my name and use the word "fule pressure" or "lift pump" you'll get some info that may help.

Eric

 

[The patriot]

Do you have a gauge, is the FP good?

If you do a search under my name and use the word "fule pressure" or "lift pump" you'll get some info that may help.

Eric



PS if your idle is slow, it may be hard to start.

 

[Piersol]

OK, the dealership has had the truck 2 days now and they don't know what is wrong. The truck will not start at all now. This can't be that tough! If they put a fuel pressure gauge and the pressure is low or none wouldn't it have to be the pump? If the fuel pressure is ok, wouldn't it have to be a return line or supply? The truck ran flawlessly before it wouldn't start. It seems to me if it was a bad return line why would it have started then just quit. It seems to me that if it was running then air would have been purged from the system and it would not have just quit. I suppose I could have bad fuel but i also filled my tractor with the exact same pump(taxed, mind you) and it runs great.

 

[Joe G.]

The dealer "technicians" work on computer scooters all day. How can you expect them to find a problem that is mechanical? It won't show up on a scope or scan tool. I told a friend of mine who happens to be the parts manager at the Dodge dealer what was wrong with his truck and how to test for it. The guys in the shop had no clue after working on it quite a few hours. You need to know what sort of fuel pressure you have before going any farther.

 

[JPittinger]

This can't be that tough! If they put a fuel pressure gauge and the pressure is low or none wouldn't it have to be the pump?

Nope, could be sucking air in the fuel supply to the pump.

 

[Piersol]

so you are saying no diagnosis can be made until supply and return lines are new? If they don't leak but suck air how else could you know they need replacing?

 

[Joe G.]

so you are saying no diagnosis can be made until supply and return lines are new? If they don't leak but suck air how else could you know they need replacing?

Not exactly. There are more things than hoses that are possible leakers. It the hoses are the stock ones, then they WILL leak eventually if they are not already leaking. So you are going to have to change them anyway, so it's best to do it before spending any time trouble shooting the system. Basically, if they are leaking and so is something else it will just complicate things.

 

[Piersol]

So 7 days later the dealer soaks me for $535. New lift pump, hose, filter change(I told them to do it). Guess what, hard starting at the dealership after hours when i pick it up. I give them the benefit of the doubt and figure there is some residual air in the lines. 2 hours later in my driveway i go to start it and no start. I think i will tell them to replace the return line and tell them i will pay for the new pump but not any labor associated with the job so far. Does that seems fair?

 

[Joe G.]

Did they replace the fuel heater? I'm beginning to think that a lot of lift pumps are replaced because an air leak in the fuel heater. You can't tell by looking at it. There are pictures of my fuel heater that almost cost me a new lift pump before I found it. Believe it or not, they leak in the electrical connection.