Has anybody heard of LE (Lubricating Engineers) oil?

[DieselLady]

I'm not sure why you quoted my comment to make your point. I don't own any older trucks and am no longer responsible for their maintenance. My son-in-law's company owns my old '01 and he doesn't ask for my opinion on how it should be maintained. It only gets a thousand miles per year of usage now and would probably keep running for a while with no engine oil at all.



As I stated, I use Valvoline Premium Blue, a product recommended by Cummins, in my '08. I am confident that Cummins designed the new engines with full knowledge of the challenges, if any, presented by the new low ash oils that would be available for them.



I see no need to purchase snake oils with magical properties at inflated prices and regardless how many speeches are spoken or written, I never will. If Cummins, the manufacturer who builds our engines, believed that it was important for me to buy magical lube oils they would publish that recommendation and I would follow it.

I quoted you because I think your faith in the recommendations of all the big companies is for lack of a better word, naive. I have personally seen the inside of my DPF and have done lots of research on the oils for the new 6. 7 dodge. I have also experienced the difference between having it on and off my truck. I do believe Cummins wants to keep a quality product, but I also know they have no choice but to do what the EPA and CARB wants.

That being said, a DPF is SUPPOSED TO last 100k miles according to what the law requires of the Manuf. Seeing what mine looked like at 8000, BEFORE I did anything to my truck, I know that will never happen, and the proof is blatantly obvious with all the back ordered DPFs that the dealer is waiting for right now. I just think you need to look at the real world before you continue to preach what the rules are to the folks on the forums. Pull yours off and tap the thing on the ground and see how much ash comes out. Then come back here and tell us how good you feel about having a big plug in the tail pipe of you new $60k truck. My truck now BREATHS and gets a solid 2. 5 mpg more fuel economy, doing the math. I can't see the logic in trying to save a planet by using 30% more fuel. And frankly I am tired of people preaching the rules to me.

 

[machinemover]

LE's Specs



PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS – TYPICAL:

SAE Grade 15W-40

Gravity, ºAPI 29. 5

Viscosity,

SUS @ 100ºF 600

SUS @ 210ºF 82. 3

cSt @ 40ºC 129. 3

cSt @ 100ºC 16. 1

cP @ -20ºC, ASTM D-5293 6,500

cP @ -25ºC, ASTM D-4684 26,100

HTHS Viscosity @ 150ºC, cP, ASTM D-4683 4. 1

Viscosity Index 130

Color Red

Flash Point, ºF (ºC), min. 430 (221)

Pour Point, ºF (ºC) max. -24 (-31)

Total Base Number (TBN), 10. 0

Sulfated Ash, Mass% 1. 0

Elemental Sulfur, % <0. 40

Elemental Phosphorous, % <0. 12

SPECIFICATIONS EXCEEDED:

API CJ-4, CI-4, CI-4 Plus/SM, SL Mack EO-O Premium Plus 07, EO-N

ACEA E7-04, E4, E2 Demonstration Premium Plus 03, EO-M Plus, EO-M

JASO DH-2 Demonstration Volvo VDS-4, VDS-3, VDS-2

Global DHD-1 Cummins CES 20081, CES 20077, CES20076

Allison C-4 Transmission Detroit Diesel 93K218, 93K215, 93K214

MB P228. 3 Caterpillar ECF-3, ECF-1

Renault RLD-3 MTU Type I & II

MAN 3275

RECOMMENDATION:

Not for use with silver alloy bearings such as EMD engines (Electro-Motive Division of GM). When used in Cummins

engines requiring an oil that meets the CES 20078 spec, do so in coordination with a used oil monitoring program.

300 Bailey Avenue • Fort Worth, TX 76107 • 800-537-7683 • Fax: 800-228-1143 • Lubrication Engineers,® Inc. - Welcome. LI30052

04-07

8800 MONOLEC ULTRA® Engine Oil Technical Data

 

[HBarlow]

I quoted you because I think your faith in the recommendations of all the big companies is for lack of a better word, naive. I have personally seen the inside of my DPF and have done lots of research on the oils for the new 6. 7 dodge. I have also experienced the difference between having it on and off my truck. I do believe Cummins wants to keep a quality product, but I also know they have no choice but to do what the EPA and CARB wants.

That being said, a DPF is SUPPOSED TO last 100k miles according to what the law requires of the Manuf. Seeing what mine looked like at 8000, BEFORE I did anything to my truck, I know that will never happen, and the proof is blatantly obvious with all the back ordered DPFs that the dealer is waiting for right now. I just think you need to look at the real world before you continue to preach what the rules are to the folks on the forums. Pull yours off and tap the thing on the ground and see how much ash comes out. Then come back here and tell us how good you feel about having a big plug in the tail pipe of you new $60k truck. My truck now BREATHS and gets a solid 2. 5 mpg more fuel economy, doing the math. I can't see the logic in trying to save a planet by using 30% more fuel. And frankly I am tired of people preaching the rules to me.

Interesting. I wonder whose posts you've actually been reading??



If you go back and read all my posts in this thread and all posts since I joined the TDR in 2001 you will never find one single post where I have "expressed faith in the recommendations of all the big oil companies. "



What I have said often and will repeat here is that I have faith in Cummins, Inc. , who manufactured the engines in our trucks, to prescribe proper oil that will properly lubricate their engines for at least the normal life expectancy of the engine.



I also have a degree of confidence in Robert Patton and the members who authored the oil test reports published in previous TDR magazines to be honest and accurate in their reporting.



I don't know the business relationship between Cummins, Inc. and Valvoline but when I toured the Cummins MREP in summer of 2002 one of the many presentations we TDR members enjoyed was delivered by Valvoline engineers. I do know that Cummins dealers sell Valvoline and recommend it so I am confident that Valvoline is adequate for my '08 6. 7.



Again, I don't know who you have been reading when you accuse me of "preaching what the rules are to the folks on the forum. " I have said nothing about rules concerning dpfs and have no interest in whether you choose to leave yours on your truck or remove it and grow flowers in it. Ditto for other members. In short I didn't preach a word about any rules.



What I have said repeatedly and will say again for clarity is I am not impressed by the claims of salesmen or company literature for "snake oils" claiming magical properties. I used basic old petroleum-based Shell Rotella T for 325,000 miles in an '01 and 230,000 miles in an '06. I had zero problems with either engine that could be linked to lube oil. I would continue to use Shell Rotella but the recent TDR oil analysis reports indicated that Shell Rotella, although perfectly acceptable, is not among the top tier oils available. Valvoline Premium Blue was ranked better and, as stated above, is respected and recommended by Cummins for the 6. 7L engine so that is what I use.



You seem to have some kind of hangup about removing your dpf. Please don't feel a need to justify it to me or preach to me about the merits of removing it. I could not care less what you choose to do with your truck or your dpf.



Please go back and reread my posts, all my posts, and quote me where I wrote the things you accused me of in your post above.

 

[DieselLady]

Originally Posted by HBarlow

Beware of snake oil salesmen with fantastic claims but little to back them up.



The first question to ask is: "is the LE brand oil certified for use in the new engines that demand ULSD fuel?"



A fairly recent issue of the TDR magazine included a test report of chemical analysis of all the major brands of oil. I don't remember hearing of LE.



If its so good, are all the major truck fleets using it? Does Cummins recommend it?



I used plain old Shell Rotella 15/40 purchased by the case from SAM's Club for 325,000 miles on my '01 and 230,000 miles on my '06. No synthetic, no fancy additives, just Shell Rotella poured from the jug. The '01 is still in the family and has 350,000 miles showing. No failures, no repairs.



I use only Valvoline Premium Blue in my '08. "





These comments together sound like you and the TDR article only advocate "certified oil" for the 07 and newer trucks. That demand the ULSD fuel. Followed by the Snake oil comment gives the connotation that everything else is BAD. I do have issues with this, and with removing the DPf which I happen to prefer and it is because I understand the whole story. CJ-4 rated oil is the only oil certified to go in the new 6. 7 engine and it is not necessarily the best for the engine. EVEN though Cummins recommends it.

THey have to recommend it because it keeps ash down in the dpf and the EPA demands that. Sooooo Cummins will pick the best oil they can for the engine, yes, but it is no where near as good at lubricating the engine as CI-4 rated oil. Yes your old engine was protected very well and so would the new one if you could still find plain old CI-4 rated oil and use it in your new truck. But you are not allowed to. OR,,,, you can make up your own mind and decide which you would prefer to replace, your DPF or your engine. I can assure you, and this is where the TDR article comes in, that even Robert Patton went on a big hunt looking to find the old CI-4 rated oil so he didn't have to use the new Certified oil in his older truck.

So, OK,,,,, maybe I over reacted. But Pleeeeaassse, Just because it is certified by cummins, doesn't mean it is the best ALL the time, and the way you phrased it makes it sound like anything else,,, even the LE which does happen to be CJ-4 rated, is no good for our trucks. I wouldn't use it for all the lack of lubricity reasons, but I think everyone should be well informed enough to make their own decision, not just because it is the only thing certified.

BY the way, you CAN still get CI-4 rated oil from Union 76, at least for now. In case anyone wants to know.

Rant over.

 

[HBarlow]

Originally Posted by HBarlow

Beware of snake oil salesmen with fantastic claims but little to back them up.



The first question to ask is: "is the LE brand oil certified for use in the new engines that demand ULSD fuel?"



A fairly recent issue of the TDR magazine included a test report of chemical analysis of all the major brands of oil. I don't remember hearing of LE.



If its so good, are all the major truck fleets using it? Does Cummins recommend it?



I used plain old Shell Rotella 15/40 purchased by the case from SAM's Club for 325,000 miles on my '01 and 230,000 miles on my '06. No synthetic, no fancy additives, just Shell Rotella poured from the jug. The '01 is still in the family and has 350,000 miles showing. No failures, no repairs.



I use only Valvoline Premium Blue in my '08. "





These comments together sound like you and the TDR article only advocate "certified oil" for the 07 and newer trucks. That demand the ULSD fuel. Followed by the Snake oil comment gives the connotation that everything else is BAD. I do have issues with this, and with removing the DPf which I happen to prefer and it is because I understand the whole story. CJ-4 rated oil is the only oil certified to go in the new 6. 7 engine and it is not necessarily the best for the engine. EVEN though Cummins recommends it.

THey have to recommend it because it keeps ash down in the dpf and the EPA demands that. Sooooo Cummins will pick the best oil they can for the engine, yes, but it is no where near as good at lubricating the engine as CI-4 rated oil. Yes your old engine was protected very well and so would the new one if you could still find plain old CI-4 rated oil and use it in your new truck. But you are not allowed to. OR,,,, you can make up your own mind and decide which you would prefer to replace, your DPF or your engine. I can assure you, and this is where the TDR article comes in, that even Robert Patton went on a big hunt looking to find the old CI-4 rated oil so he didn't have to use the new Certified oil in his older truck.

So, OK,,,,, maybe I over reacted. But Pleeeeaassse, Just because it is certified by cummins, doesn't mean it is the best ALL the time, and the way you phrased it makes it sound like anything else,,, even the LE which does happen to be CJ-4 rated, is no good for our trucks. I wouldn't use it for all the lack of lubricity reasons, but I think everyone should be well informed enough to make their own decision, not just because it is the only thing certified.

BY the way, you CAN still get CI-4 rated oil from Union 76, at least for now. In case anyone wants to know.

Rant over.

An objective reading by an unbiased reader of the opinion I expressed above would simply determine that I do not accept the claims of companies who market engine oils with magical properties and inflated prices and prefer, instead, to use only traditional motor oils carrying the labels of the major companies. Another objective reading would also note that I preached to no one about what they should buy or use and criticised or insulted no one's intelligence or choices regarding the brands they choose. If you read back over this thread you might see that you criticised me and my comments personally. A thoughtful reader might also decide that my opinions and choices on the matter are clearly shared by a majority of truck and car owners based on nothing more than sales volumes. I doubt that manyi reasonable people actually believe that one of the companies marketing the oils with amazing claims actually sell as much product as Shell, Valvoline, etc.



It sounds like you have lots of issues including you simply don't like me or what I write. That is your problem, not mine. Your issues are of no concern to me. Continue your rant if it makes you feel better somehow.

 

[Wiredawg]

There's nothing like the discussion of oil and oil products to stir up lively discussion. I'm actually using a variety of oils in our Dodge/Cummins trucks. The '03 has Mobi l 1 synthetic in the motor, Chrys AT4 in the transmission, and Amsoil in the diffs. My 02 has Amsoil in the Motor w/ Oil bypass, Pensoil transmission, LE 607 in the diffs. The '93 has Rotella in the motor, Mobil 1 in the Getrag, and the WalMart generic brand gear oil in the diffs and transfer case.



My point is I don't have any one particular brand I follow. Each of my trucks have different operating characteristics and specs, so I am running what I feel meets those needs.



After over 35 years of maintainging my vehicles and reading lots of post on the subject, there is no best solution or answer. I have good results w/ the lubes I use as many of us have with their's.



All that matters is the our rigs last a long time with good service.



Happy Trails,



Wiredawg

 

[jleons]

Jleons

Hello

You can say what you want, if you have not used a LE product and talk it down you will probaley vote for Abama; not checking up on the facts and letting someone else tell you what is good for you. I have over 35 years as a Equipment Manager and tested them all with a Federal Agency. LE was top's with others just as good for various applications. I have used RR and like it to for applications. But bad mouthing LE just because you heard someone say something, reminds me of watching CNN. Check it out yourself, preform some equipment analysis.

You will learn a lot about what really works for your application and be able to say: yes this is good/bad and I dont know because I havent testet it yet.

Good Luck

 

[grasmo]

All of you guys would enjoy reading about the way petroleum products get from the earth into a container in the retail market. Most of my education has been provided by a huge oil company but all of the info I gained from them has been very helpful in understanding what affects fuel,combustion by products , heat, acid ,water, lack of heat,extreme pressures, viscosity..... I do not claim to know everything about oils but I have read a lot about it and find it amazing and I have found that my favorite oil company also recognizes other companies good points and will point out areas where they were out performed ... . I call it the good the bad and the ugly ... Also notice I did not mention the name of my favorite oil co. You guys will discover this in your own sweet time.

 

[MMeier]

All of you guys would enjoy reading about the way petroleum products get from the earth into a container in the retail market. Most of my education has been provided by a huge oil company but all of the info I gained from them has been very helpful in understanding what affects fuel,combustion by products , heat, acid ,water, lack of heat,extreme pressures, viscosity..... I do not claim to know everything about oils but I have read a lot about it and find it amazing and I have found that my favorite oil company also recognizes other companies good points and will point out areas where they were out performed ... . I call it the good the bad and the ugly ... Also notice I did not mention the name of my favorite oil co. You guys will discover this in your own sweet time.

Awww, come on, give us a hint !!!:-laf

 

[grasmo]

Hint # 1 They have been mfg. synthetic engine oils since 1972. That is a long time. Hint # 2 They are an American owned Co. based out of Superior, Wisconsin. Hint # 3 The owner of the Company is a retired military chemist who formulated synthetics for military jet engines.

 

[MMeier]

Hint # 1 They have been mfg. synthetic engine oils since 1972. That is a long time. Hint # 2 They are an American owned Co. based out of Superior, Wisconsin. Hint # 3 The owner of the Company is a retired military chemist who formulated synthetics for military jet engines.

Darn, where is that cheerleader smilie dudette??

 

[Dl5treez]

What can Amsoil, Lubrication Engineers, Schaffer's, and whoever else blends up a boutique oil give me that Delvac, Delo, Rotella, or Tection can't?



Stickers?



Pride?



A cut of the sale price?





Just curious...

 

[HBarlow]

What can Amsoil, Lubrication Engineers, Schaffer's, and whoever else blends up a boutique oil give me that Delvac, Delo, Rotella, or Tection can't?

Stickers?

Pride?

A cut of the sale price?


Just curious...

IMO opinion that about sums it up except the mystery oils can also give you a wonderful warm, fuzzy feeling of satisfaction that your truck knows the difference, appreciates the additional money you spent, and loves you more than my truck loves me.

It is a matter of personal choice. I wore the uniform of my country for close to 30 years to ensure that I and everyone else can enjoy freedom to decide.

 

[grasmo]

Some people seem to know a lot about oils and additive packages . And as far as the cheerleader smile bring your ***to Tallahassee and I'll show you the cheerleader smile... . I'll bet your friends laugh at you and your knowledge of oil ... . if they don't they should..... remember sometimes you can accidentally mess with someone who you really did not have to. As far as my silly hints I was being nice and thought some people would get a kick out of it. Did not mean to offend you. All of this because you asked.

 

[grasmo]

Amsoil can provide you with information about the way their product is manufactured and the astm test results to back up their claims as to how their product scored ... . this may not be important to most people but ... dyno results aren't important to others or load ratings on their tires or the ppm of sulfur ... whether if you use Amsoil or not my point is I find it very interesting... . and trust me I like to read test results and the way things are made and I am constantly enriching myself with knowledge. I love to tinker and I have invented several items that are in use daily.

 

[Dl5treez]

That's what makes this country great. We have so many choices on how and where to spend our money.

Never said Amsoil or any of the others aren't great oils, because to the contrary they very much are. I just--personally--haven't seen great enough of an advantage for my use to merit their cost and limited availability.


The endless quest for knowledge is a pursuit of merit, and nobody should downplay that.

Mechanical devices are such a crap shoot for durability it's really quite hard to take controlled environment test results and state in blanket format that X oil is better than Y oil for all intended applications. Kudos to the boutique oils for leading the way in the laboratory, but out in the real world anything can happen, which is why I still feel it's not worth the money and/or effort to locate, purchase, and use the exotic stuff when anything off the shelf at NAPA seems to work just fine, for me... .

OK, my real world example... I run Mobil 1 in my race car. $4. 99 per quart. Many of my competitors are using Brad Penn, Joe Gibbs, Royal Purple, Red Line, and other exotic formulas that make the aforementioned seem like Wal-Mart store branded Super Tech and cost about 3-5x what the Mobil 1 does, but they have engine failures as much as anybody else, so the jury is still out. Before Mobil 1 I was using Castrol GTX and the switch was purely due to sponsorship and not because of issues with the oil... I've seen ZERO benefit from the Mobil 1 over the Castrol, for what it's worth.....

K, going back to my corner...



To each their own, all good!

 

[BradyWilliams]

LE has been what we have been installing for some time now. IT IS THE BEST that we have seen. We used to sell Red Line and Amsoil and they are good. But LE is cheaper and is better in many ways. It does not emulsify with water. Last as long if not longer than any other Synthetic oil. There BTU fuel additive is a great product as well.

 

[Doubleclutch]

Yep, there's nothing quite like an oil thread to get the viscosity going! Lots of good folks have gotten the boot for getting a little too excited about their brand, and made comments about the other's comments.

From my experience, one can NOT be an expert on everything. Our circle of experience frequently doesn't intersect specialized fields where some companies have made outstanding contributions. With the exception of the Kevin Dinwiddies of the world (tribologists-there aren't many) we are all hacks when it comes to lubrication. API standards change for a variety of reasons, and when they do, a simple "This is the best one" recommendation from a manufacturer doesn't mean that there aren't oil snakes lying around that could end-run the government required specifications... or parts that could be removed restoring the validity of the previous API standard.

Don't take things personal. it's only dead vegitation, after all!

Greg

 

[Dl5treez]

Don't take things personal. it's only dead vegitation, after all!

Quoting for prosperity.