Hate to say it, but drove a Ford today.

[Beast2B]

I would wait till that engine has years before I would even think of it. Most likely Cummins is sitting back and waiting to move ahead of the pack. I have never seen a PS with over 200,000 miles

Rick

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Cummins guy to the core! But, we have a 99 F350 4x4 crewcab at work that just turned 280k on the stock long block. It gets worked hard and fantastic maintenance, maybe that helped...

 

[HBarlow]

Yeah, but a '99 would be an old Navistar 7. 3 liter school bus motor. Some of them did go two or three hundred thousand miles.

 

[Cummins Ag]

Yeah, but a '99 would be an old Navistar 7. 3 liter school bus motor. Some of them did go two or three hundred thousand miles.

Correction. A lot of 7. 3s run high miles. It was a solid platform.

-mike

 

[Cummins Ag]

The problem with the new Ford motor (hats off to Ford for building their own motor- even if it is built in Mexico like the Dodge trucks) is not that is doesn't make power. And the new truck drives well and has an excellent frame and axles. The problem is that it is new and no one has any idea what it will be like to own after it is out of warranty. We know what to expect from a 2011 Dodge. And you know what it will take to fix the weaknesses of the Dodge truck as time passes. The Ford truck will likely be solid, but we do not know how the new motor will age. If you trade every two years - maybe it is not a big deal. If you keep your truck for the long haul, it is a big unknown at this point. The expanse of heat shielding and the complexity of the motor concern me because neither condition ages well.


-mike

 

[FFL8N]

Either Ford has inflated their hp and torque numbers or their drive train sucks up a lot of the power. Just look at how much better the Chevy pulled the Colorado hill in the Diesel power magazine. I'm not impressed at all with the new Furd. For Furd to put all that money and time into developing a new engine and transmission then to get stopped on by Chevy was pretty sad IMHO.

 

[CTaylor]

Correction. A lot of 7. 3s run high miles. It was a solid platform.

-mike

Yes it sure was. I have a 94 OBS F350 crew cab with the 7. 3 Powerstroke and its got 258'000 on the clock and driven almost daily. In my opinion its probably the closet or only thing Cummins had as competition back in the powerwar heydays.

 

[MSicotte]

Servicability is a big concern for me as well. In the shop I work at we see all of the big 3 diesels, and have done head gaskets on all of them. For knowing that the cab has to come off, Ford did some pretty stupid things, for example having the cab mount bolts go in from inside the cab, meaning significant interior disassembly/removal. I pull the cab to do head gaskets on Duramax's too, and I can have the cab off in under 2 hours. The Ford takes over 3. The Cummins head is off in under 2 period. I looked under the hood of a new Ford and can't imagine owning one of those when the warranty is out, I'm not afraid to take things apart, but if I need to book a week off of work and hope I can use my hoist and tools so I can do anything engine related, I'm not interested. I agree with others too, how much power is enough? I odn't plan on towing 24k, give me a truck with decent power, make it reliable, and give me some milage!!! (shouldn't be too much to ask right?) Just wish Dodge didn't void warranty on USA bought trucks brought into Canada so I could save 10k on a new truck... ... .

 

[MLee]

Well MarcS, Ford now claims that they don't have to remove the cab any more to service the engine (like service the turbo, change the spark plugs or work on the injectors) like the ones before. But what about the cost of maintainance after the warranty runs out? going to be expensive.

 

[JHumphries]

... (like service the turbo, change the spark plugs or work on the injectors)...

 

[HBarlow]

Servicability is a big concern for me as well. In the shop I work at we see all of the big 3 diesels, and have done head gaskets on all of them. For knowing that the cab has to come off, Ford did some pretty stupid things, for example having the cab mount bolts go in from inside the cab, meaning significant interior disassembly/removal. I pull the cab to do head gaskets on Duramax's too, and I can have the cab off in under 2 hours. The Ford takes over 3. The Cummins head is off in under 2 period. I looked under the hood of a new Ford and can't imagine owning one of those when the warranty is out, I'm not afraid to take things apart, but if I need to book a week off of work and hope I can use my hoist and tools so I can do anything engine related, I'm not interested. I agree with others too, how much power is enough? I odn't plan on towing 24k, give me a truck with decent power, make it reliable, and give me some milage!!! (shouldn't be too much to ask right?) Just wish Dodge didn't void warranty on USA bought trucks brought into Canada so I could save 10k on a new truck... ... .

This post is the kind of information I read and consider necessary for making truck buying decisions, not the flowery language and weasel wording written by automotive journalists in the advertising magazines that contain a few paragraphs of bs paid for by the advertisers.

I think the requirement to pull the cab in order to replace a head gasket or injectors is a whole lot more meaningful than reaching the top of a grade first winding at redline.

 

[MLee]

I guess it was a little late, to try and throw in some funny!!!!!! (spark plugs)??????????????????



didn't mean to offend anyone.

 

[HBarlow]

I assumed the spark plug line applied to the gas suckers and still required cab removal. Furd engeering applies to their gas products as well as their diesels doesn't it?

 

[CBlack]

I think that Furd fixed the cab removal part of the equation. From what I've gathered it is no longer necessary.

 

[JMetzger]

Yea now it is sore backs, pulled muscles, cut fingers & loss of religion. I will keep my Dodge Thank You.

 

[Harlacher]

Dodge has the Cummins in it... . Mine is finally broke in, 200,000. nough said.

 

[CUMMINZ]

HB, I kinda like that word you used (weasel wording). I will have to say I test drove one of the 11s when they first came out and was impressed and still am impressed. The servicing of the engine is not a personal concern because I don't turn bolts. I have a very good diesel mechanic. I still think the new Ford engine is going to be a winner for Ford. I several months later saw in person a Ford dually and thought the rear fender flairs were not what I like. My 07. 5 only has 49k on it and it is my retirement truck. I hope Ford has good luck with their truck because I wish no harm on no person or car maker. Their success will only breed more research on DCs part and make it better. More power to all of them.

 

[MSicotte]

I have to respectfully disagree with Cumminz on his point of cab removal not being an issue because he doesn't turn bolts. The point to consider is if you did have to have major work done its going to be extremely expensive. Up here the diesel rate at a dealer is at least 135/hour. Flat rate on a duramax head gasket or 6. 0 is around 34-38 hours. Cummins is about 9 ish. Add in the extra parts (2 head gaskets instead of 1, reusable headbolts on a Cummins, not a Ford etc) and the costs become huge. After warranty costs are a significant influence in a purchase, especially if it were to be be my retirement truck.

 

[HBarlow]

HB, I kinda like that word you used (weasel wording). I will have to say I test drove one of the 11s when they first came out and was impressed and still am impressed. The servicing of the engine is not a personal concern because I don't turn bolts. I have a very good diesel mechanic. I still think the new Ford engine is going to be a winner for Ford. I several months later saw in person a Ford dually and thought the rear fender flairs were not what I like. My 07. 5 only has 49k on it and it is my retirement truck. I hope Ford has good luck with their truck because I wish no harm on no person or car maker. Their success will only breed more research on DCs part and make it better. More power to all of them. [/QUOTE]

I agree with your closing sentences in the paragraph above. I am a patriotic American first and foremost and want to see every American company and every American citizen be the best the company, it's products, and every citizen can be. But I am not blind to quality and will not buy American simply because it is manufactured or sold by Americans. I look for value for my dollar. It enrages some, but if a cheap communist Chinese tool will work for the rare and occasional job I have for it I don't pay for Snap-On quality.

My frequent criticism and skepticism about Furd (and GM) products is based on their history and design choices, not a wish to see them fail. I would be happy to see either or both of them do well.

But . . . and that is a large BUT, I will never be convinced that a V8 diesel is as efficient and durable as a Cummins inline six cylinder diesel engine when used for hauling and towing. I offer as evidence to back my statement the entire fleet of perhaps a million or more OTR 10 wheel and 18 wheel trucks on the roads of America.

To me, there is beauty in the engineering principles that allow a relatively small inline six cylinder diesel engine to pull 25,000 or 30,000 lbs. up a grade at 1600 rpm. NO V8 diesel engine can do that, regardless what GM and Furd television and print advertising imply.

 

[HBarlow]

I have to respectfully disagree with Cumminz on his point of cab removal not being an issue because he doesn't turn bolts. The point to consider is if you did have to have major work done its going to be extremely expensive. Up here the diesel rate at a dealer is at least 135/hour. Flat rate on a duramax head gasket or 6. 0 is around 34-38 hours. Cummins is about 9 ish. Add in the extra parts (2 head gaskets instead of 1, reusable headbolts on a Cummins, not a Ford etc) and the costs become huge. After warranty costs are a significant influence in a purchase, especially if it were to be be my retirement truck.

I'm convinced!

That's the kind of information I want to read in a comparison of the truck choices. King Ranch leather seats don't do much for me but 34-38 flat rate hours to replace a head gasket sure as heck gets my attention.

 

[JMetzger]

I have to agree with Harvey, When I ran a shop for Kraft Foods in Champaign, IL many moons ago we had two IH 4070 Transtars with 903 V8 Cummins in them. They were complete disasters. Had so many problems we finally just used them as yard tractors. Wouldn't compare with the 350 Cummins.