Have we seen the high point of development?

[hammersley]

What do you folks think - will there continue to be development for the GEN II 24 valve owners or has it seen it's peak in development? I mean since they're not building anymore - the market has peaked - I guess in 10 years will we have any new stuff from teh turbo-chip-transmission folks??????

 

[BigMike]

What are you doing up so damn early Johnnie?? In answer to your question, I think they want us to buy new trucks.

 

[LSMITH]

I too have been thinking about this. Logic tells us that the market is shrinking, and it was a TINY market to begin with. Only a very small percentage of CTD's are ever anything but bone stock, so if we take away the new owners coming into the fold it all comes down to reaching the existing owners that are unaware of the possibilities for sustained business. That is not a good move, as that market is even smaller and shrinking as well.



I believe that we are at the peak of mainstream development for the ISB, and that the ISB-E is now the focus. There will still be some innovation, but I see more and more of it coming from smaller shops and individuals. I see guys like HVAC as the real promise in advancing the ISB as the larger companies back away and move to the new trucks.



I see us as being "old hat", but we really can't complain. We can buy 700+ RWHP and even an auto transmission that will hold it over the counter now, what is left?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I think we have all we could reasonably ask for engine-wise, and the bodystyle is so well established in the 2nd generation trucks, there will continue to a good supply of appearance and utility goodies...



Looking at the fuel delivery side, conversion to common-rail COULD be pretty easy - using the existing injector pump to supply the rail, it would pretty much loaf most of the time - substantially lighter overall duty cycle, and the actual injector control module SHOULD fairly easily tie into existing circuitry, along the lines of EDGE stuff, for fueling... But, probably not enough base interest to warrant development I suppose...

 

[Ncostello]

I predict a degradation in the ISB society. All ISB's will eventually be fitted with P7100 pumps and 12V gear covers as were their ancestors before them. Then all ISB's will remain road worthy for millions of miles into the future. At least thats what I forsee in my 24V's future.

 

[Scrappy]

GEN 2 24v HPCR

I would like to see a kit to transplant the HPCR into our trucks, but I have no idea where to start. If that is not possible, then I see a P7100 in my future

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The aftermarket - outfits like Edelbrock - have been making computer controlled fuel/intake systems for converting older gas rigs for some time now - and they reportedly are very flexible and efficient - of course, there are lots more SB Chevies out there than ISB's...

 

[Patriot Diesel]

what more could we want...

I too believe that the development of upgrades / performance improvements will definately slow down after a while. Probably within a year or two. But at this point what else do we need? We have the ability to make a 450-500 HP truck with simple bolt on items and of course a transmission upgrade.



Life is good for owners of 2G trucks... too many goodies to choose from... that is always a good thing... IMHO...

 

[klenger]

On the other hand, as more of the 24v trucks go past 100K miles, owner's may feel more inclined to upgrade since the warranty has expired. I suspect that it will take more than 5 years for most of the new trucks to pass 100K.

 

[jmeehan]

Originally posted by Ncostello

I predict a degradation in the ISB society. All ISB's will eventually be fitted with P7100 pumps and 12V gear covers as were their ancestors before them. Then all ISB's will remain road worthy for millions of miles into the future. At least thats what I forsee in my 24V's future.

I have to agree, this is my fall back plan if the electronics start acting up. But EFI has been around on gassers since at least the late '80's, so who knows? The Cummins/Dodge gear could hang in there for the loooong haul.

 

[R.E. Miller]

I second the notion of mechanical upfit for longevity. I work on these things daily, and being a gearhead, there is just nothing more disheartening then seeing an engine with strong internals with a fuel system that just doesn't deliver. I sinceraly hope that the common-rail doesn't turn out to be as common as the VP-44 and the Caps pumps have been. It really stinks, because when these things work right, they really do run good... driven a 330ISC lately? Likewise, when they don't, you just have to wonder, BTW, Bosch, Cummins, or not, you can thank the EPA for most of this.





P. S. The ISB is still being made for the industrial market with some very respectable and interesting HP/TQ levels... check them out.



Russell

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

It helps to keep things in perspective...



http://216.235.147.117/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62836

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Imagine how we feel.....



bob

 

[R.E. Miller]

Gary - KJ6Q....

Where I work... . we have seen it more then once. Outright disgusting. The VP-44's and the CAPS pumps are flat out fragile



Russell

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Where I work... . we have seen it more then once. Outright disgusting. The VP-44's and the CAPS pumps are flat out fragile "





Could be - but we're still waiting for the FIRST such case HERE on this board...



PLUS, if there HAVE been any VP-44 failures after a pusher pump install, it would be interesting and helpful to know the specifics - if a VP-44 has been exposed to low/no fuel pressure PRIOR to a pusher install, it certainly would be understandable if the VP-44 DID still eventually fail - an added pusher certainly WILL NOT erase prior abuse or damage!

 

[jwilliams3]

The VP44 gets a bad wrap on the boards, but most users have not and will not have a VP44 failure.

Some have, some because of aftermarket mods accelerating a failure or just having a bad lift pump, or even just a bad fuel pump.



But overall these VP44's do there job even with low pressures over a period of time.



The P7100/24 valve conversions are only warranted for sled pullers seeking RPM in my opinion or a crapload more fuel.



Gary,

The VP44's pressures are not high enough to support a Bosch Common Rail platform, you would need a Common Rail pump to supply that fuel rail, its probably a 10k-15k fuel psi difference.



--Justin

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by klenger

On the other hand, as more of the 24v trucks go past 100K miles, owner's may feel more inclined to upgrade since the warranty has expired. I suspect that it will take more than 5 years for most of the new trucks to pass 100K.

That's my deal, I drive 16-19K miles a year and it will be 5 years from now when my warranty runs out because of time not mileage. If the VP44 is a problem at that point I will not replace with a VP44 on my own dime, but with a conversion to a P7100, so I only would have to do it once. Of course all of this depends on what kind of shape my trucks in in 5 years. Not throwing good money after bad. Plus it will probably never be a problem, like JWilliams stated, there are not that many failures with the VP44 Knock on wood

 

[R.E. Miller]

It is very true, and most people who bash the VP-44 don't really take into account the fact that A) the chances of actually having yours fail are slimmer then you think. B) Making the VP-44 deliver more fuel then spec does not warrant complaints due to failures. C) These days, in the luxury environment we live in here, most don't keep their trucks that long anyway (note: This is not a real excuse, if it is to be a truck or a diesel, it should be built that way and run that way)



My biggest problem is that I get to see these things fail a lot, in applications that are not boosting Hp/Tq, just vehicles designed to run to make money, and they just don't do the money making thing when they don't run. I can't say too much, but it is just real perplexing to see mechanical injection pumps that outlast the engine, and to see the electronic ones that are almost like a preventive maintenance item.



Russell