Head Gasket took a ***** this morning!

[Rob Thomas]

Hey guys,



Well my head gasket blew out this morning,the funny thing is that I only have 45# max boost, and only 56,000 miles.

When it went out I wasn't even near max boost,no really I was just minding my own business, driving around drinking coffee.

I talked to some people this morning about it, and they told me that it has happend before 'cause the bolts weren't properly torqued from the getgo.

Good news is that Cummins has one in stock, and I should have it back together by 6pm or so. Bad news is that according to everyone I talked to there not an upgraded gasket for the 24-valve,so I'm stuck with the OEM.

Every thing went smooth when I removed the head,boy that thing is heavy.

The gasket blew out right in the front, just under the wire harness, I'll post some pics of the gasket when I get them developed.

I just have two questions, I'm sure Cummins can tell me, but what is the CORRECT torque on the head gasket? I didn't want to do this today,or fer the next 200,000 miles, so I want to get it right this time.

The other question is,has this happend to anyone else? I mean other than the guys with twins.

One last thing is that every thing else looks good, as far as no carbon buildup, or anything out of the ordinary,as I wouldn't expect it to after 56,000 miles.



Later, Rob





Incase your wondering why I didn't take it to the dealer,well, their just waaaaaay too slow fer me, I need this truck tomorrow,besides all the BOBMING, I didn't even want to chance it.

 

[DEZLPWR]

Sorry to hear about....

You should send your head to Piers for some "tampering"like Jetpilot did... . What setting was your Powermax on ? How did you know that it blew?(symptoms etc. )

 

[TxDieselKid]

Don't quote me on this, but I think aside from the o-ringing, Piers has some non-OEM headgaskets.



Sorry to hear your bad luck, maybe I should go torque my head bolts.



Andrew

 

[Rob Thomas]

DP,



The PM was set on 4,but I wasn't mashin' on it. The symptoms,well, a BIG puddle of oil in the parking lot fer starters, then I looked under the truck to see if it was MY oil, good greif there was oil clear back to the rear axle. So I opened the hood to see where it was comming from,was hoping it was a loose oil filter or somthing simple,but with me it's never simple. I then started it up and looked around 'till I saw it oozin' outta' the head,so after I yanked it out,yep the gasket is shot, about 1 1/2" piece is gone, right between the two front bolts.



Later, Rob

 

[Jetpilot]

Rob,



Like DEZLPOWER said I am having my head O-ringed by Piers. Hopefully this will stop this from happening to me again. Guys with single turbo's have blown headgaskets for quite awhile... . Most of us that have had this problem are torqueing the head to 130 ft. lbs. I think the manual actually says to torque to 75 lbs. (or something in this area) and then turn 1/4 turn more.



There are many reasons it could have let go when it did. Heck mine went on a dyno run and only 100 rpm into it so my boost wasn't way up either. They usually let go either in front of #1 or behind #6.



Doug

 

[Rob Thomas]

Sorry to hear your bad luck, maybe I should go torque my head bolts.

Bad luck, no, just something else to do,as if I didn't have enough,LOL I didn't even get PO'ed,just acceped it and started wrenchin', I wanted to just wash the truck today, now I gotta wash it, well I won't have to worry about rust on the frame fer awile. :-laf :-laf



Later,Rob

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Jetpilot

Most of us that have had this problem are torqueing the head to 130 ft. lbs. I think the manual actually says to torque to 75 lbs. (or something in this area) and then turn 1/4 turn more.



Doug

Doug,

Did i read this right, to torque it to 130ft. lbs insted of 75 and a 1/4 more turn?



Time to do some torqueing my head!!



Andrew-get your mind out of the gutter!

 

[Rob Thomas]

Jetpilot,



Yea, I want to get it o-ringed,but that will have to wait 'till I get funds and more time,it really isn't that bad of a job,I'd do it agian, but not fer awhile Let us know how yours works out.



Later,Rob





EDIT Thanks fer the specs, I'm gonna' crank 'em down!

 

[Don M]

Rob,



Head gaskets are not too bad and if done right you should be ok for a while.

Anyway, after removing the head be extra meticulous when cleaning the head and block surface. Suck the oil out of all the head bolt holes or when you re-insert the head bolts to torque them down the oil will squeeze out onto the sealing surface and you will blow another. Oil travels up the block and to the rockers through those holes. Be certain it is all removed. I have a 1HP shop vac I use with a 1/8" piece of clear tubing connected to the end to stick into bolt holes to remove all the oil. Some guys use a turkey baster, etc. I use about 500-1000 q-tips and run them down into all the holes to insure there is no residue left in them. I ran a tap down every bolt hole as well to insure a good threading area for the bolts and make a good accurate torque. The exhaust side bolts had a bunch of rust and junk in them. Glad I tapped them.

Scrap of any surface rust that may have 'grown' around the exhaust side of the head and block. Scrape, Scrape, Scrape.

After all the sealing areas are cleaned I check the head and block for warpage. After everything is scraped and cleaned I wipe the entire head and block sealing surfaces down with a liberal amounts of Laquer thinner. Not mineral spirits or paint thinner. I actually used acetone on the last one and it worked well and evaporates fast too.

Have a friend or neighbor help you lower the head down as to not scratch the new gasket. Since the bolt holes are dry from cleaning and tapping you should coat the bolts with a very light spray of lithium grease or if you dont have the spray a very very light coat of engine oil. I torque from the inside out. Starting at about 45ft lbs. Then I move up to 66ft lbs. Then to 89ft lbs.

Finally, I go to 120-125 ft lbs. Then I return and re-check all the bolts to 125ft lbs.



Your new gasket should come with a gauge to tell if the bolts are stretched or not. Mine were fine. I would check them anyway.



Oh, the shop vac or turkey baster is for the coolant holes too. Suck them out a little as well if needed.





Don~

 

[M Barnett]

Is it a good idea to retorque the head on an older engine like my 94? I remember in some applications they say not to, maybe the aluminum heads because of the steel threaded inserts in the aluminum.

Michael

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Micheal - I'm sure a LOT of us on this board would LOVE to see some pics of your aluminum head OR block on yer Cummins - *I* sure would - and does it have "Duramax" on it anywhere?



When did GM start building engines for Dodge... :--)

 

[M Barnett]

Ha! No, I didn't mean a Cummins with an aluminum head, I was refering to anything with an aluminum head. Just trying to find out if we can do this from time to time without hurting anything.

Michael

 

[Speedo]

Head gaskets

What Don M. said about cleaning out the bolt

holes is good advice, oil left in a bolt hole

can also cause a hydraulic lock on the bolt and

giving you an inaccurate torque reading.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Don M

Rob,



Head gaskets are not too bad and if done right you should be ok for a while.

Anyway, after removing the head be extra meticulous when cleaning the head and block surface. Suck the oil out of all the head bolt holes or when you re-insert the head bolts to torque them down the oil will squeeze out onto the sealing surface and you will blow another. Oil travels up the block and to the rockers through those holes. Be certain it is all removed. I have a 1HP shop vac I use with a 1/8" piece of clear tubing connected to the end to stick into bolt holes to remove all the oil. Some guys use a turkey baster, etc. I use about 500-1000 q-tips and run them down into all the holes to insure there is no residue left in them. I ran a tap down every bolt hole as well to insure a good threading area for the bolts and make a good accurate torque. The exhaust side bolts had a bunch of rust and junk in them. Glad I tapped them.

Scrap of any surface rust that may have 'grown' around the exhaust side of the head and block. Scrape, Scrape, Scrape.

After all the sealing areas are cleaned I check the head and block for warpage. After everything is scraped and cleaned I wipe the entire head and block sealing surfaces down with a liberal amounts of Laquer thinner. Not mineral spirits or paint thinner. I actually used acetone on the last one and it worked well and evaporates fast too.

Have a friend or neighbor help you lower the head down as to not scratch the new gasket. Since the bolt holes are dry from cleaning and tapping you should coat the bolts with a very light spray of lithium grease or if you dont have the spray a very very light coat of engine oil. I torque from the inside out. Starting at about 45ft lbs. Then I move up to 66ft lbs. Then to 89ft lbs.

Finally, I go to 120-125 ft lbs. Then I return and re-check all the bolts to 125ft lbs.



Your new gasket should come with a gauge to tell if the bolts are stretched or not. Mine were fine. I would check them anyway.



Oh, the shop vac or turkey baster is for the coolant holes too. Suck them out a little as well if needed.





Don~

Great post Don, lots of good info!



Andrew

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Possibly part of the reasoning behind not retorquing an old engine is the bolts may have built up corrosion and some may not have, and you would end up torquing them to values that are very inconsistent. Applying 120ft lbs to a dirty bolt may only get you 90ft/lbs worth of clamping force. As you know part of the reason for meticulous cleaning of the bolt holes and lubing the bolts is so that you will get accurate and most of all consistent torquing of each bolt.



Poorly and inconsistenly torqued heads can cause sealing problems, not to mention cylinder distortion which would cause in increased blowby and accelerated ring & piston wear.



Don made a great post here that everyone should take to heart each and every time they remove the head on their Cummins! It is good to be reminded of these very important basics.



Vaughn

 

[HVAC]

Head Gaskets

I'm very big on the O-ring process. So much so that I had a company machine the first guide template for the Cummins engine. Now the O-ring process can be done to your deck surface

while the engine is still in the frame! I'll have my O-ring machine while in Vegas this weekend as we have an engine that will be getting a race prep O-ring system done. It might be a fun opportunity for folks to see how it's done.



In liu of the O-ring process you should install

a . 020 over 12v gasket. Just enlarge the water

jackets to match your old gasket. This will drop

your static compression and relieve the pressure

on the gasket.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Nowel,

A little birdie told me that you might be at Thunder in Munice is this true? If so email me more about getting this done there please.



Andrew

 

[HVAC]

Muncie Bound..... Gid Up "Red"

Yup, goin to Muncie next month. Gonna do some shake down runs with my lil truck and get it to launch. Just put some 13" wide MT ET Streets on

my new 13" rims. Got some 6. 5 front runners too.

Hope to have the combo down come Muncie.

 

[Lsfarm]

Not a "Blown" headgasket

Yesterday I picked up Rob's new headgasket from Cummins, delivered it and helped a bit with the process of getting the heavy head back on the block. Three guys and an engine hoist made this process fairly easy.



Rob's old headgasket was not 'blown' in that it did not have a section of the gasket blown out by compression or cylinder pressure. The metal seal around the cylinder itself had not failed or distorted.



The failure was in the first 2" long 'teardrop' shaped opening that creates a passageway for oil to tranfer from an oil gallery in the block to around a head bolt. [The headbolt 'bore' carries oil up to the valvetrain. ] There are six of these 'teardrop' shaped passageways in the gasket.



On Rob's failed gasket the gasket material was flakey, kind of like layers of an onion or a croissant pastry. The gasket material failed, and allowed engine oil to leak to the outside of the head. From the oil passageway to where Rob saw the leak was not the shortest distance either. It could have leaked to the drivers side, under the intake runner, and sprayed all over the VP44 and all the wiring and plumbing on the drivers side. Now that would be a real mess to clean up!!



I personally feel that the quality of the gasket material itself is rather poor. I wonder if the 12V gasket that HVAC mentioned or the 'Marine' engine gasket is of better quality?



Looking at what happened to Rob's headgasket makes me wonder if this is a weak link for even a mildly 'bombed' cummins engine?



Oh well, if mine starts to leak, Rob knows all the tricks now. .



. . a bit of info for the curious. .



Greg L

 

[HVAC]

FYI

They all blow like that. The last one I worked on

had blown all three front barrells just like you

described. The fabric blows sideways into the

teardrop shape oil area and then the oil forces it's way forward and spits out the front of the head.



We use solid copper headgaskets to avoid the problem mentioned above.