Head Gasket

[MMiller]

Well guys and gals, I was hauling a tractor for the neighbor this weekend and when we stopped to unload the front diff was wet with coolant, again. The truck has never overheated, its always gets adequate warm up and cool down time. The last time a few weeks ago it was the radiator, got it fixed and thought all was good again. Well after limping it home and looking at it, it looked to be the thermostat housing. Replaced the stat, and resealed the housing and then presurized the system to check for other leaks. Well the leak is really comming out between the head and the block right under the stat housing.



Is this happening often with other trucks, mine has 195000 miles on it. I don't think it has anything to do with the fuel settings or other mods, not loosing power, no oil in the cooland, no coolant in the oil, just an external leak of coolant.



So after I accumulate all the necessary gaskets, I will imbark on pulling the head. Anything I need to address while I am in there other than the normal head gasket replace?? While I have the head off would it be worth my time to polish up the intake and exhaust ports? This truck will prolly not get twins, or propane or high rpm mods. This is my daily driver, and its got to tow well, its plenty fast enough now.



I plan on resealing and replacing the bolts in the exhaust manifold and turbo. I would like to replace the turbo just as some preventative maintence, and add a 16cm housing but will prolly not do that now.



Just looking for some tips, things I should do, things I NEED to do, stuff like that, but I also need to get it fixed, and running for winter time use. I don't want to spend alot of money, but I want to fix it right!!



Can anybody help?



Thanks, Michael

 

[R.E. Miller]

You'll be fine! Look at you last name!

Unfortunatly this happens a lot. I will try to lay down some good tips. First, go to cummins and get your parts, and get the head gasket kit. It comes with tons of gaskets and about everything you will need to do the job. I would not get into messing with the turbo bolts/gasket unless they are an issue or you are really going to change your housing. Your gasket kit will come with a head bolt grading gauge, some don't worry about it all that much, but I would stress using it. I really hate doing jobs like this more then once when avoidable. Another very, very, key point here that is easy to get confused by: You have three sizes of head bolts (3) I stress this one because I have seem the aftermath of not following the torque right. Your short bolts are the ones that are located around the exhaust manifold, your long bolts are the ones that secure your rocker assmeblies. The medium bolts are all of the ones inbetween. Follow the torque, and understand that only the 6 long bolts go to the highest torque then everything goes an additional 90* The easy way to do the job is to leave as much as possiable attached. For instance, remove youe exhaust manifold, leaving the turbo attached to the drain line and to the exhaust pipe, leave the injectors in(if you have a lift of some sort), return line on, remove only the bolts that secure the injection lines to the intake plate, don't remove the grid heater wires, remove the intake bolts and pull the grid heaters out of the way. I know it sounds like a gross mess, and it might look that way while doing it, but it will speed up the job, and eliminate time wasting sessions on things that were not problems before you started. BTW, buy an good easy out/extractor set before doing this job, and soak your exhaust bolts with good stuff for as long as possiable before going to town. If you manage to not break off an exhaust bolt, you should get a lucky star A good way of attempting this is to use a 3/8" impact gun and worry them out. Tricky, yes, but it does work in some cases. Try to tighten the bolt then back it off and vice versa until it starts to come out... . oh yeah, it still might break Clean all parts good, use a light form of scotch-brite (cummins may have this) to clean the head and block surface, and you should be just fine.

Tools:

Strong friends or a chain lift of some sort. (If you have this BTW, you can take the head off with the turbo and exhaust manifold attached> Bouns Round

Good torque wrenches to get from 10-98ft/lbs

3/8" impact: just makes it nice

1/2" impact: for the extra 90* on the head bolts

Yup, sockets.

A key tool that might cost a lot in the big picture, but will make you real happy with the injector lines is made by snap-on. It is an injector line socket that is 3/8" drive and is either 11/16" or 17mm in size to get the lines on the pump loose. Oh yeah, take them off as two assmeblies.

Yup, wrenches.

You might need an injector puller/brush for cleaning if you go that route.

Good supply of penetrating oil.

Small torch for stubborn things.

Patience and organization.



I hope that this lays some light on the subject, if I have been too detailed, sorry, I never know how much experiance everyone has. If I missed anything, well it's late and I'm still human the last time I had a check-up If you need any more help, I'll try my best.



Russell

 

[R.E. Miller]

Sorry, long post.

Yup, I forgot something. This is simple, but you'll feel like s shmuck if you don't put the engine on TDC with the head off. :-laf #@$%! I just did this to myself last week at work, yup feel like a real winner. Makes for an easier quicker overhead adjusting session.



Russell

 

[nascar mark]

Good post Russell,

Only thing I would add is make sure your new head gasket is the marine version as it seals much better, loosen off valve lash before removing towers and back off smaller of the tower bolts first, then larger ones when removing. Then reverse for install.



Good luck

 

[A Johnson]

Replace any rusted bolts, especially those rusted in the fillet area under the head of the bolt.



Mark the heads of the bolt with a paint pen before the 90* final turn, then when all the paint marks are pointed the same way, you know they are torqued.



Check for cracks around the injector bores and between the valve seats.



A lot of people get worried about the surface condition and you will likely see some erosion where the fire ring seals around the cylinder. My theory is you are pulling the head for a leak close to the t- stat, (the printoseal has probably failed), not trying to make a new engine, if it ran fine before it will probly run fine again.



It's important that the surface is clean and dry on assembly, if you don't have a good contact cleaner available, steal the rubbing alchohol out of the medicine chest and use it.



A Johnson

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

You may also want to enlarge the exhaust manifold bolt holes slightly. If you end up doing any serious bombing, and/or generating some heat the darn gasket will eventually 'creep' on you and you'll have to do it again anyway.



Last thing to note MMiller, if you run into anything that is "discontinued" or No Longer Available make note of it and it goes in the "Support forDiscontinued Parts" forum under 1st Gen.



This is a good post you guys. Hmmm is this a 'best tips'... contender?



Bob.

 

[JLEONARD]

Great posting I will save and hope I don't need it...

I have just one thing to add... .

Be extremely carefull if you use scotch-brite to clean the block surface... ... About 4 years ago when my son worked for a Goodyear store Goodyear (national) issued a policy that said "do not use scotch-brite" when cleaning anything that was not put in a wash tank afterward.

The minute particles can easily get flushed into the oil system... they don't filter out well, and Goodyear had to buy too many engines that self destructed from these particles.

Just a heads up...

I stopped using scotch-brite after he told me this.

(Maybe that's a "best tip" as well. )

 

[TPCDrafting]

I just wanted to emphasize going to the Cummins shop to get your upper end gasket kit. Not the stealer. When I bought mine, I was quoted $160 at Cummins and $450 at the local Dodge stealer. I'm not a mechanic, so I mostly watched a friend and fellow TDR member do the work. It didn't seem like rocket science, so you should do fine.

 

[MMiller]

Thank you guys for the info, it is great and more is welcome! I planned on talking to Great Plains Cummins prolly monday and get an upper end kit. I am going to pull the exhaust manifold off as the gaskets have already been "creeping" and have some soot around them. I will put new bolts and gaskets there.



The only question that has yet to be touched on is, will it be worth my time to polish up the exhaust ports when the head is off. Like I said before this truck will prolly never get "seriously bombed" but it will continue to get upgrades until it fullfills all my performance desires .



And yes the truck runs great now just won't hold coolant under the stat housing between the head and block. Not looking to overhall it, I'd rather wait another 800,000 miles or so



Thanks again for the help,



Michael Miller

 

[Philip]

Just open the ports around the outer edges of the exhaust? It probably wouldn't help that much. Most improvements are gained in the seat area right under the valve head itself. Once the air is past the turn into a straight runner. Any minor polishing would have very little effect.



Now if you want to drop the valves out and blend in the area right below the seat. You will see some gains in this area. That would include blending in the valve guide boss that sticks down into the runner.

 

[MMiller]

Thank you, philip, for the response. And to the rest thank you again. Looks like I might get to tackle this project this weekend.



Michael Miller

 

[BCaldwell]

MMillar,re porting your head check out piersdiesel.com under technical for some good information on doing this improvement to your truck. bill

 

[R.E. Miller]

Originally posted by JLEONARD

Be extremely carefull if you use scotch-brite to clean the block surface... ... About 4 years ago when my son worked for a Goodyear store Goodyear (national) issued a policy that said "do not use scotch-brite" when cleaning anything that was not put in a wash tank afterward.

The minute particles can easily get flushed into the oil system... they don't filter out well, and Goodyear had to buy too many engines that self destructed from these particles.

Just a heads up...

I stopped using scotch-brite after he told me this.

(Maybe that's a "best tip" as well. )

This is a good point, every head gasket job get's an oil change at the end of it. Also, when you go to Cummins, ask for a gallon of Zvoc cleaner. It really works great, no residue, very powerful, but not too much. Another point to remember when doing this job which goes along with cleaning: use a brake cleaner, a rag, and your air hose set to stun to blow out all of the head bolt holes, very important for good torque readings. You can also use the zvoc to "wash" down the block after using the scotch-brite.



Good Luck,

Russell

 

[DPKetchum]

Hi,not to promote shade treeing or such but i had a body shop employee with a 190,000mile mid 90s k5 blazer with a 350vortex engine bring it in with it loosing 1/2 gallon or so of coolant a week. Anyhow we looked at it 3 or 4 times,found no leaks and it help pressure. He insisted it did. We pulled plugs and they were a little too clean,he claimed no rough run,no steam etc. Anyhow talked to a chevy guy and he said possable crackes in head but more then likley a intake gasket or crack. Owner of truck said he'd thinkl about it. A week later i asked him about truck. He said its fixed and told me he got some internal block seal from napa and followed directions,had to pull thermostat and totaly flush all coolant from system etc. Said all total with wait time was 4 or 5 hours. Said it was pretty in depth stuff for diesels etc. Over next year as i would pass him at times i look and say WELL. Over a year later it still held coolant as normal. He finally left for another job. JUST A THOUGHT>

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I didn't read everything here but I just put a HG in my 24v and the head was out of true by . 006 on one end. I had it surfaced, ported, and o-ringed.



I would have the head checked for true while it's off. I blew the gasket at 85+ psi on propane. Not many 1st gens have that problem.



A good going through while it's off is worth while.



FWIW,

Mark

 

[formula]

85psi... ... how much propane were you running when it popped?

Any comments on the performance of the propane injection? I've been thinking of trying propane but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or if I stand to gain much in the way of hp.



SP

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Originally posted by formula

85psi... ... how much propane were you running when it popped?

Any comments on the performance of the propane injection? I've been thinking of trying propane but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or if I stand to gain much in the way of hp.



SP

A LOT!!! I made 20psi more boost on propane alone(65 or so on diesel. )



The propane is really nice in the 50-60hp range. good power yet relatively safe. not a lot of EGT increase if any.



Gimme a yell if you need a kit.



Later,

Mark

 

[R.E. Miller]

Hey Mark,

Your bottom end is just begging for a set of low compression pistons..... you know, the nice teflon skirts, may be a little ceramic on the dome..... 15:1 static



Russell

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I put in an . 020 over gasket. which should lower the compression to ~15. 8:1 from the ETH 17:1.



But yeah Russell, those'd be nice

 

[MMiller]

Special thanks to everyone that replied to my post. Yesterday morning I started on the project at 7:30 am. By 9:30 am it was completely disassembled. All the manifold bolts, exhaust clamp, the turbo mounting studs all came loose, without breakage.

Cleaned everything up, everything looked good and started reassembling. By about 7:30 pm it was back up and running, leak free, except for the fuel lines at the filter base, which there were no new seals in the upper end kit. I have to get those this week to fix that small leak. Left it in the shop overnight and today changed the oil, filled up the coolant the rest of the way, washed it and brought it home. Prolly this weekend will recheck the valve lash.



A couple of things I would do different.



Remove the injectors, Its not that hard to do and it is far more time consuming to be extremely careful handing and cleaning the head with them in. I got into two of them with the buffing wheel, they will work for now but will get replaced after christmas, maybe time for some performance ones?!?



When installing the push tubes it is very easy to have them miss the lifters, seems to be harder to feel them than the cats I am used to. Make sure they go into the lifters correctly before installing the rockers DUH. Had to redo three of them



The one thing I forgot to do. While the head was off I was going to remove the low idle stop lock nut and install it on the other end for easier adjustment, but I got all worked up getting it together. So I guess for now it will still idle a little high, oh well its easier to four wheel it that way anyways



Thank again for all the responses to the head gasket, it is very simple, just kind of tedious.



Any advice on new injectors ?!?