Heavy duty torque converters.

[BLindblom]

mad max how is the dtt nonlocking convertor compare to your other convertors?

 

["Mad Max"]

It's real good - huge difference from a stock unit. It's better than the TCI unit I had in another truck, but not a by a huge amount. The TCI is a pretty good deal for the money, and if I wasn't towing BIG weight I'd have probably gone with the TCI. But, honestly, down the road I'm having DTT build me a full-boggie 2nd gen transmission with lock-up converter. There's a lot of voodoo to get all the piecesparts right when doing the conversions, and Bill at DTT is the big bad voodoo daddy.

- M2

 

[sdstriper]

Converter talk

This is exactly what I wanted to hear, putting together the pieces for my transmission also. TCI will do for my budget. Eventually I would like to put a 47RH in also, save my pennies for that one. Mad Max, I forget which TCI converter you had and what transmission, read it previously in my info research. Could you refresh my memory? Thanks.

 

["Mad Max"]

The TCI converter is pn# 142250 TCI Truck Master Converter, A518. Costs $360. Not bad for the money. Not the best, but not bad. This link might work for Summit Racing...



http://store.summitracing.com/partd...&N=700+4294908110+4294924761+115&autoview=sku





This converter is a direct swap for any Cummins-727-A518 transmission. It is a 6-bolt flywheel design, so it will not fit a gasser (4-bolt). The swap takes about 5 easy hours.



Recommend hoisting the rig up in the air - up on a rack is the best and safest way to do the swap.



Two mandatory tools for the swap: 4' (that's 4-foot) extension for a 3/8" socket driver, and a 9/16 wobbly socket (with the little spring surrounding the u-joint keeping it from flopping over 90*... you know the one... just go get them both). The bellhousing bolts are nearly impossible to access with a wrench, and are most easily accessed by coming at the bellhousing bolts from directly behind, between the floor and the transmission. Reach up there with the extension and socket, directly from the back, and you'll do in 2 minutes what would take 1/2 hour and a lot of swearing. Sounds hard, but it's the simplest way to get the bolts, especially the uppermost 4 bolts.



Also, you'll have to pull the driveshaft (s) out and set it our of the way. The yoke bolts on the diffs are most easily cracked loose with another handy tool - a 3/8-5/16 combo brake bleeder wrench. These have the extended depth/angle on the box ends to reach into those hard-to-reach areas to crack open brake bleeder screws, and are also phenominally handy at reaching the yoke bolts. I think the yoke bolts are 5/16...



Also, unbolt all the crossmember bracketry, and remove the tranns crossmember completely. Easiest way to do it, otherwise the crossmember gets snagged on everything when you're sliding the transmission back about 10 inches to R-n-R the converter.



Flexplate Bolts: To get to the flexplate bolts, first remove the inspection shield. Then just get a big honkin' screwdriver, and 'lever' the flywheel... one tooth at a time between the flexplate teeth and the bellhousing... around until each bolt is aiming directly down. Put on the wrench, smartly whack the wrench with a heavy rummer mallet, and they'll crack loose, then just finger 'em out or use a ratchet GearWrench goodies (also a supremely handy tool for this job). Repeat 6 times.

Once loosened all the way, they won't fall out naturally - you have to very, very slightly nudge/bend the flexplate, just a very slight amount, and the bolt will fall out. All 6 bolts come out very easily this way. The same is true to get the bolts back in. It sounds scary, but it's very simple, and on the three rigs I've done this swap to they all worked the same way, no sweat. If you want to replace the converter bolts (not necessary, just use medium locktite on the old, cleaned-off bolts) you can get them locally at parts stores on the 'performance' sections, but they typically come is packs of 4 for the gasser 727's.



Put about 3 quarts of ATF-3 fluid in the new converter (and some ATF on the shiny converter input shaft) before inserting it into the transmission. Remember, there are three distinctive 'thunks' when inserting the converter (you'll feel them - you'll just 'know'), and once inserted all the way you won't be able to get your fingers behind the converter (between it and the inside of the bellhousing).



While it's up, swap in a deep transmission pan - any will do, just go for the additional fluid. I got one from mag-hytec, and the B&M unit is also good. Worth the additional $, especially since it's all apart anyway. Whatever pan you go with, be sure to drill and tap a small hole for the transmission temp gauge (unless it already has one). I think the B&M pan doesn't come pre-tapped. I'm going to drill and tap the B&M pan on my 78 Ramcharger's 727 before long, and I'm using the MHT pan for the 'template' for where to tap.



If you really want to do this right, go to the dealer and get one of the factory rubber-lip seal transmission gaskets. No silicone on a trans gasket, ever, even with the cork style, but these rubber 727 pan seals are the shizzle.



There's more of course than what's written here to this swap - these are just the highlights. You will get dirty, and messy - GoJo or Fast Orange handy wipes will be very handy to have close by. I also highly, highly recommend eye goggles.



- M2

 

[sdstriper]

That's good read'n there! I bought a B&M transmission pan from Summit recently. $136. 00 bucks for a four quart over stock (A727) pan is the best deal on a deep pan I have ever seen. I thought it was a misprint, great looking product too.



I am moving the gauge to the cooler out line (pressure out line) after reading up on it at DTT's forum, has some good reading on transmission temperature gauge location. Unless I read or misunderstood something, someone correct me if so, you should get the temps and a better idea of just how hot the trans. really is from fluid right out of the TC, before it runs thru the cooler(s).



Great tips on tools and procedure Max, thanks. I just acquired a set of GearWrench's too, they are great. I am in the market for a flaring tool set if anyone has a recommendation.

 

[JSpecht]

This is a good tread I was looking for this info . Is there any other brands of converters out there that are any good??? As for tci converter what is considerd pulling heavy ???? like 10,000 plus to much for that converter??? THANKS

 

[zstroken]

guy from work bought a tci unit, sent it back, ended up with goerend.

 

[sdstriper]

Sent it back after he tried it?



I would like to clarify that I have never had a vehicle situation where the torque converter was a big deal like with these diesel trucks. That being said I have not been impressed with the TCI converter I recently installed. I expected more to be completely honest with everyone reading. I do think it is better than the stock converter but I can't imagine they would take it back. If I had to do it again I would try Goerands for a couple hundred more (non L/U 727 unit) and I will definately buy my next (518 project) converter from Goerand. I have talked to Dave a few times about my DIY rebuild and he even sent me a "homemade" rebuild DVD set and offered to send out any special tools I might need, quite the operation they run.



For 380. 00 bucks your better off than an OEM converter IMHO, for approx. 500. 00 I would expect a better product and my expectations of a 1000. 00 unit could very possibly be unrealistic at this point considering the dissappointment I had with the cheapo unit.



I would love to have another CTD truck someday, I may have to get into a manual transmission to get the power to the ground...

 

[zstroken]

Yes he installed it. I don't know the specifics, he had been wanting to do a transmission for like 2 years and kept complaining about prices. Well he tried to skimp and put in a TCI and a transgo shift kit. Had issues with the lock up and hunting gears. He took it back out and welt with a goerend convertor. I can't remember what he did with the VB.

 

[JSpecht]

goerend convertor How do I go about getting a hold of them??? Thanks for the warning about the TCI converters

 

[sdstriper]

http://www.goerend.com/



They have a brand new site even.

 

[dpuckett]

Not to nit pick, but the lock up, hunting & unlocking would apply to the 2nd Gens, not 1stGen nonLockups. I'm not sure how upgrades compare from generation to generation, but it sounds a little apples to oranges to me. Okay, maybe grapefruits to oranges.



DP

 

[JSpecht]

Goerend Transmission Incorporated



They have a brand new site even.

We bought one from them, man that made a night and day differance in the way the truck drives . Thanks for all the info guys that helped alot!!!!!

 

["Mad Max"]

A little update on the DTT converter in my rig: Good stuff fellas. I recently pulled my big trailer around (5000 lbs empty) and I was real, real impressed on how well the truck got up and got going - just the right amount of stall/rpm and just the right amount of torque to the tires. Granted it's not huge weight, but it was the stall speed I was most impressed with. It stalled out perfectly with the power curve, and man did it feel stout. I stuffed my right foot down and it just moved out and cruised smooth. And now that I'm cranking about 270 hp and over 600 tq the transmission is everything.

Straight up - any aftermarket converter will be better than the stock unit. As far as which one, I would very simply go by this simple rule: The heavier the weight, the heavier the price tag for the converter. That pretty much sums up the differences. Figure on at least $500-$900 to get a 1st gen to really hook up and pull.

Could be worse fellas - could be a big monster clutch yer needing to pony up the big $$$'s for.

- M2