Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Heavy smoke - not the good kind

[John Berger]

Where to start.



Monday afternoon, I get back to the house from running an errand. I noticed a greyish color smoke. Not much. As the week went on the smoke got worse. I filled the truck at a Wal-mart in Chattanooga and my first suspicion was a bad load of fuel.



I topped off yesterday, putting almost 12 gallons of fuel where I usually buy from, and took the truck out today to try to run the fuel off, with the intent to throw another half tank in.



The smoking got worse, so after running around for about a hundred miles or so, I headed back home. A couple of miles from the house as I was coming down a hilll, I engaged the exhaust brake and whammo, a nice loud tapping sound commenced. No loss of oil pressure, but the truck just shut off. I coasted for about 3/4 of a mile, pulled off in a farm driveway and re-started the truck. It fired up just fine and I nursed it home, but by this time the smoke is really bad and the tapping sound came back. I was running about 35-40 mph, so when I felt the truck start to shudder like it was going to stall, I'd throw it into neutral and coast and when I needed some speed I'd bump it back into 4th gear.



I had to do this for about 2 miles. As I coasted up to my house, it felt like it was going to lose power and by now, the mosquito population has been severely depleted.



I parked the truck and breathed a sigh of relief. Got out and popped the hood to try to isolate that tapping sound. At idle it came and it went, but it sounded like it was coming from the injection pump. The motor sounded fine and like I said, the oil pressure never wavered.



This injection pump was put on at 138,000 miles. Right now, I'm at 164,750 miles.



When my stock pump gave up the ghost, the check engine light came on. That has not occurred this time. The truck seemed to have plenty of power before it quit on me.



After I got back to the house, I took care of a few things and then started the truck up. It started hard, but it turned over. The tapping sound did not return.



Some background. I had to have the head gasket replaced about a year ago. Cummins in Chattanooga performed the service. If they replaced the head gasket, would they have adjusted the valves? I'm assuming so, but don't know for sure. I'll need to contact them I guess.



Would an injection pump going bad cause that much smoke, but still respond to throttle normally? What about the injectors? Would they cause a heavy amount of smoke, if one or more were going bad? What would a bad injector sound like?



The tapping was extrememly loud, but it really sounded as though it were coming from the injection pump. The valves sounded fine.



My signature describes my truck, but I will post that I have 275 hp RV injectors and an EDGE EZ box. I disconnected the box and put the truck back to stock and the smoking or rough idling did not go away.



Thanks for any and all information. I'm about 20 miles from a Dodge dealership and about 45 miles from Cummins. I'd really like to take the truck to Cummins, but I'm not driving it there, or for that matter, even to the Dodge dealership. Looks like a tow is in order.



Any suggestions and information would be thankfully welcomed.

 

[JDiepstra]

Man I have no idea but thanks for taking care of the mosquitoes!

 

[AllianceDiesel]

To me sounds like injection pump, but also could be something internal to the engine like dropped a valve seat, but you would loose major power if that happened, if you can get it to some where that can scan for codes and see if there is anything, you can have codes but no check engine light.

 

[John Berger]

I dumped some of the fuel. This may sound strange, so bear with me.

When the fuel is exposed to air after a moment, it assumes the usual smell associated with Diesel fuel.

I filled two 1 quart mason jars with the stuff that I bumped out of the canister using the lift pump, and there is an odor that reminds me of grain alcohol/lacquer. My first instinct was old gas. I checked my receipt and it was from the Diesel pump. Anybody know where you can get fuel analyzed?

I think the first order of business is to get the filter changed out and the tank drained and then refill with fresh fuel. Hopefully the problem will go away... . and there will be no problem with my injection pump.

I don't think there is an internal issue, either. I only lost power when the truck tried to stall after that first time it shut off. The injection pump can be the culprit there.

Of course so could old fuel.

On edit: brain fart by me. The smell that I noticed is the PS fuel treatment that I added, so back to square one.

 

[John Berger]

Man I have no idea but thanks for taking care of the mosquitoes!

At 3. 83 per gallon, I sure hope it has a lasting effect. :-laf

 

[tolmsted]

Does any TDR member reading this think that maybe gasoline was incorrectly off loaded into the WalMart underground diesel fuel tank by mistake and this could be the problem?
Best of luck. I hope you can figure it out.
Tom

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

I'm pretty sure your '99 doesn't have the hardened valve seat inserts.

 

[John Berger]

I'm pretty sure your '99 doesn't have the hardened valve seat inserts.

I'm not sure if it does or does not, but I really do believe this is a fueling issue, either the pump or injectors.



Hey tolmsted, it was my bad on the fuel smell. In the excitement (read PO'd) I forgot that I had put some PS fuel treatment in the tank. That was the smell.



Evidently it evaporates quickly because the fuel that hit my concrete pad smelled like normal fuel.



What really ticks me off about this whole problem is that I installed a remanned pump back in January of 2006. Bought it off an advertiser at this site.



If the pump is indeed the problem, I'm not going to be happy about only getting 26K out of it.



One other thing. I've consistently averaged 17. 1 to 17. 5 mpg for the past 15 months.



Since I topped off yesterday, I ran the truck 169 miles and am at half a tank. The black soot is quite thick at the exhaust tip and the whole rear quarter panel is heavy with soot... . more so than normal.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

Here is what I do to check to see if there is gas in the fuel, pour some on the ground and throw a match at the puddle it should start on fire if its fuel, but will light right up if its gas.

 

[JLandry]

One other thing. I've consistently averaged 17. 1 to 17. 5 mpg for the past 15 months.



Since I topped off yesterday, I ran the truck 169 miles and am at half a tank. The black soot is quite thick at the exhaust tip and the whole rear quarter panel is heavy with soot... . more so than normal.

John,



Are you saying that fuel economy is low or good for your type of driving?



If it's low, have you eliminated all the most usual culprits for low fuel economy?



Install a new air filter.

Install a new fuel filter.

Have you ever replaced (or at least cleaned) your IAT (Intake Air Temp) sensor? The ECM uses the IAT signal to help the VP44 control the fuel mixture.



Admittedly, that ticking noise is way outside of normal and if it's coming from the VP44, obviously that isn't good. There's an electronically controlled solenoid valve inside the VP44 responsible for controlling the flow of high pressure fuel to the injector lines, and I would assume if it wasn't able to cleanly shut off the flow when it's supposed to, you'd get excess fueling at the cylinders.



You might try buying a mechanic's stethoscope from an auto parts store... the one with a long needle line tip... to help you pinpoint exactly where the ticking sound is coming from. That could helo you rule out an injector that's stuck open.



Please keep us posted and good luck,



John L.

 

[John Berger]

John,

Are you saying that fuel economy is low or good for your type of driving?

If it's low, have you eliminated all the most usual culprits for low fuel economy?

Install a new air filter.
Install a new fuel filter.
Have you ever replaced (or at least cleaned) your IAT (Intake Air Temp) sensor? The ECM uses the IAT signal to help the VP44 control the fuel mixture.

Admittedly, that ticking noise is way outside of normal and if it's coming from the VP44, obviously that isn't good. There's an electronically controlled solenoid valve inside the VP44 responsible for controlling the flow of high pressure fuel to the injector lines, and I would assume if it wasn't able to cleanly shut off the flow when it's supposed to, you'd get excess fueling at the cylinders.

You might try buying a mechanic's stethoscope from an auto parts store... the one with a long needle line tip... to help you pinpoint exactly where the ticking sound is coming from. That could helo you rule out an injector that's stuck open.

Please keep us posted and good luck,

John L.

That is good fuel mileage for me around here. It was better than it was when we still lived in South Georgia. We moved to eastern Tennessee about 15 months ago and my fuel mileage improved about a mile per gallon, on average. I'm running the motor in the sweet spot, as it were, more around here than I did when I drove down there, so a fuel mileage improvement makes perfect sense.

But fuel economy is definitely suffering with this problem. Normally, I get 255-290 miles per half tank. I'm way under that (169 miles) with this problem that has cropped up.

I've monitored my fuel mileage in a log book, almost since day one of ownership of this truck. It was consistent in south Georgia. It has been consistent when towing and it has been consistent in Tennessee.

I'll let y'all know what I find out. I've got to arrange for a tow to Cummins in Chattanooga come Monday morning.

By the way, the ticking sound went away, but I've only started it up. I haven't put it under load. The idle is very rough. I expect to be told that the problem is the injection pump or injectors.

I doubt very seriously that I've got a problem in the valve train. I'll find out in a couple of days.

 

[John Berger]

Here is what I do to check to see if there is gas in the fuel, pour some on the ground and throw a match at the puddle it should start on fire if its fuel, but will light right up if its gas.

:-laf I like the way you think.



Yeah, I did that. It's definitely not gas.

 

[JAG1]

I bought some fuel the other day, it ran and sounded like it had no oil or something. The engine had low power and sounded like a million little hammers going on in there. When I got home I put two quarts of TCW-3 in the tank, now much better.

I think that some folks are not adding the lubricity compounds. It sure sounded like this the other day.

 

[John Berger]

The good news is that my number three injector is cracked. The bad news could be... well... . really bad. The oil level is up, which I noticed after I got the truck parked last Friday. I had the truck towed to Cummins this morning.

They are going to order an injector and get it put in tomorrow, do an oil and filter change and hopefully when it fires up, everything will be fine.

I only ran about 300 miles with this problem getting progressively worse, which is why I decided to park it and have it towed to Cummins. The oil only has about 700 miles on it, so hopefully I didn't do any major damage to that cylinder wall.

Worse case scenario is a block replacement and a 6-8K bill according to Cummins.

That would blow. I should know tomorrow.

 

[AllianceDiesel]

the thing that you should worry about the most is that it took out your turbo, your block/pistons should be fine, replaced all 6 injectors because they were cracked on 2 different trucks and the only thing it did was take out the turbo, I have never heard of cracking an injector on a mechanical injected truck. some new I guess.

 

[John Berger]

the thing that you should worry about the most is that it took out your turbo, your block/pistons should be fine, replaced all 6 injectors because they were cracked on 2 different trucks and the only thing it did was take out the turbo, I have never heard of cracking an injector on a mechanical injected truck. some new I guess.

I don't think I ran it long enough to do any damage. I'm hoping as much or more than I am stating fact, of course.



This is a fluke thing, at least from where I'm viewing it at the moment.



I take excellent care of this truck, have done so since day one.



I would have thought a deteriorating injector would have given more of a sign than a little smoke at the start of the process, as it were.



Oh well.

 

[johncameron]

I wouldn't think it would take your turbo out in 300miles.



Change all 6 injectors, change your oil and drive it. keep an eye on your oil.



JC

 

[John Berger]

I wouldn't think it would take your turbo out in 300miles.



Change all 6 injectors, change your oil and drive it. keep an eye on your oil.



JC

That's the plan. Cummins is going to install the injector sometime in the morning. They changed the oil and filter this afternoon.



Hopefully they'll call and tell me to come and get the truck.

 

[DSeamans]

I just got done replacing my RV275, with mach 1. 6s this afternoon. Seeing this makes me glad I finally got around to it as they had 160,000+ on them. It took me less than 2 hrs and it was my first time so they should call ya pretty early.



Good luck, Problems like these suck!

Dave

 

[John Berger]

I'll have to go back and look at my log book, but I don't believe these injectors had even 100K on them.

If the injector is the only problem I'm going to post a thread asking for suggestions.

There is no way those other 5 injectors are staying in the truck beyond next week.