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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) heed help with kind of a sudder

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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) torque settings

Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) amsoil oil grade

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its not a fuel problem (not including the VP44) i have a pusher pump at the tank drilled out banjo bolts. and the fittings on the fuel filter feed line have been taken out to 3/16". i have rock steady pressure all through the RPM range.



others have had thier VP's replaced, and the problem was still there. so i dont believe its the injection pump.



i think it is in the fuel managment of the ECM. its like its too sensitive, to throttle pressure and ramps off too quik. the only thing i can see to do, is put a patch in the ECM to de-sensitize the APPS and fuel ramps (good luck getting Cummins to do that though) or de-tune or boxes, under a certain boost level (taking away from spool-up none the less). the additional fuel, realy should feed off of throttle position in conjunction with boost. i will have to admit though, my truck did this before i fooled with it. just under a moderatly heavy load, not empty so it was never perfect.





these are things i plan to look at. i just havent had time. I need to look at what our boxes are telling the truck it has for boost. i think the problem lies here. we need find out whether it is fixed or varies as boost climbs and descends. i suspect that Edge's "smoke adjustment" between levels is doing just that. it backs off the signal to the truck or even allows it to see actual readings at low boost, then ramps it up to specific "fixed" values as the "box" starts to see boost. but still hiding the "actual" boost from the truck, with that predetermined "fixed" value, based on what level of control your on. in this case, if these fixed values dont drop back off under moderate or regular driving conditions (2 or 3PSI of boost) the truck is still seeing higher boost levels than it normaly would under that load. this gives you the hyper-active fuel delivery at low rpm's. thus bucking. more than likely the higher (or lower, however you look at it) the level of smoke control (less control) the more hyper the truck gets.



anyone out there that has had the TST PM3 COMP, would know what i am talking about. when that box is run on level 7 and up it shudders the truck HARD when you let off and it is real hyper or gitty, when trying to drive at a constant speed. cruse control is rendered useless too. i am anxious to see what the truck is seeing for boost readings with my box. (PM3) i suspect it is a fixed value. with the truck thinking it has about 15psi of boost, all the time. the PM is programed to start fuel delivery at 1PSI of boost. if this is the case, then the ECM would again be delivering more fuel than it was programed for, for those speeds, making the truck have more power but simultaneously be MORE touchy at lower speeds.



fool the boost you get a little bucking, add a fueling box you get even more..... see where this is going... add some timing, wow!!!
 
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boost levels the truck "sees"

todd, i can only speak for the va and the ez at this time, as i do have a pm3 comp, but have not put the scanner on the truck with it on yet. But in relation to your question about what the boxes let the truck see for boost. the ez and the va let the truck "see" actual boost levels until it gets in the 20 pound range, then they start to "fool" the ecm. With my scanner on the truck, you can watch my spa boost gauge and the boost the scanner is picking up, and they are the same until 20 psi at which point the scanner will hold at 20 psi while my spa keeps on climbing all the way to 39 psi. so the trucks do not see a fixed number, they just think the boost is stopping at 20.
 
wanted to add to my post,

i'm not arguing with anyone here, (just thinking out loud) hopefully if we do enough thinking and research we can get to the bottom of this. As far as the problem being in the fueling curves, i dont know. If that is the case, why arent we all seeing this problem. I know of at least 10 guys with virtually identical set ups to mine, who dont have the shudder, but i do. I almost think it has to be mechanical, either pump, or the solenoid in the pump, or an interuption in the signal to the pump. i too have read about the guys who have had the pump replaced to no avail, but some claim it fixed the problem. I guess one of the big problems is we are all here typing trying to describe the problem, but we dont have them side by side to compare. however, they all sure sound identical in nature. oh well your partner in shshsaking around phil.
 
studder

Does this hapen to get worse with the further north we get, or the colder temp areas have it more prominent?



Is this selanoid (sp) to such fine tollarance that if the pump is so cold and the metal shrinks to the point of interferring with a mechanical part in the pump?



Do those that have thier fan removed notice this as well?



I have this all the time now while towing and sometimes empty, hell I would even put the trailer on and go up to EDGE and let them ride with me hooked up to thier computer to see what is going on, Brett anybody, chime in here please.
 
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I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but I just experienced this for the first time two days ago. It was a cold day, and when I started out, the truck just dropped to idle on light throttle going down my road. My road is bumpy, so I thought my foot might have been slipping off the pedal. Well, I got on the highway, and it would drop to idle if I got on it - really weird. My first thought was a fuel problem, but I kept going. I drove over 100 miles, so I was able to try to pinpoint it. Later - it would not do it in 1st or 2nd gear. It seemed to act up the most when the TC was locking up in 3rd, or when shifting into OD from 3rd. About 2000 RPMs seemed to be the trouble spot - under that was fine. I started thinking it was the TC slipping - at times it would drop to idle, other times it would rev up. As the day went on, it got much better, but it was still there. Yesterday it was completely gone. After reading different threads, my theory is it's the TPS (actually the Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor). Maybe it got dirty, or stuck, or whatever - or maybe it's faulty. I have to get it in for some warranty work pretty soon, so I'm going to see if they can come up with a diagnosis. :rolleyes:



By the way, my drivetrain is totally stock - no boxes or anything.
 
We need to keep this one on the top. I'm just paranoid, I could have sworn my truck stumbled the other day. I also heard my wife start it the other day and I thought it died for a split second. It just happens so quick that I'm not sure. It only has 8k on it and I don't want any problems. TPS makes alot of sense. Maybe it is just loose and it bounces around. It is about 30-40 degrees here. Maybe I'll back probe the TPS and see if it is getting a dirty signal?

Jon
 
Has anybody noticed if it's on specific year of trucks? I noticed that most of the people responding with the problem has ETH trucks. Maybe a bad batch of VP44 pumps?
 
Has anyone done a serious evaluation of:

1)Adequate grounding of all elements of electronic fuel

control?

2)How good are all connectors involved?

3)Are 1 and/or 2 being compromised only at specific

mechanical frequencies or harmonics?
 
I think mine did it also. Coming back from the farm(225 miles) I noticed. No load just wifey and son. It felt like I hit the brake slightly while the fuel pedal was still down. I am hoping it is bad fuel for mine. I noticed this tank has really went fast for not much traveling time. MY friend at the dealer said to start with cleaning the air filter so this pm I will clean the K&N and see what happens. I will refill the tank as it is almost empty and double dose the additive. I have been running on the aux tank and the oem tank is about 3 months old. I will do this then tomorrow we go back to the farm and see what happens. Will stay tuned to see what happens. My buddy said the air temp sensor is about 25 dollars.
 
I am pretty sure that it is not caused by adding fueling and or timing boxes because mine does it bone stock. Boxes certainly do make the problem way more noticable as does pulling a load. There seems to be some interruption in the fuel delivery. I have had all the sensors check and all test OK. Replaced lift pump with no change. 8-10 psi WOT. The interruption could be faulty/dirty connections to/from the vp44, a glitch in the ECM or something internal in the pump. I have checked every connection I could find and all seem OK. My dealer has ordered a new vp44 and am waiting for it to arrive. If this does not correct my problem I do not know what else to do but either start replacing connectors, wires, sensors, etc. or buy a new truck. My hesitation is bad enough that it is not someting that I can live with.
 
The funny thing is that I didn't see any post like this during the warmer months, did you guys? Maybe the cold temps isn't causing it , but it's definitely aggravating it.
 
Ok I'm trying to learn this stuff, what is the APPS? I haven't been around very long was there anyone with this problem last winter?
 
The APPS is the Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor - also known as the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). I think this sensor tells the ECM and transmission what your foot is doing.
 
shudder

I have the same shudder. Never noticed the problem before, but installed pipe, EZ, and transmission kit all at the same time so it makes diagnosis a little difficult.



Like you, it feels like the torque converter slipping, but doesn't make sense because when I accelerate it stops shuddering. Also, I noticed that if I kick the truck out of overdrive for just a bit when I get back into O/D again the problem is better for a while.
 
Now I'VE got the problem...

I haven't posted nor read much here for quite awhile... so after last night's New Years road trip experience where this "shudder" crap started I thought I'd check the forums. Well, guess yall can add ME to the list.



I was on a grade, not much of a grade but a grade, was running 60 mph, and got behind a bluehair..... I slowed to about 45, coasted, rpms dropped appropriately, I still had foot on throttle, then as the truck sort of caught up to where the throttle was, this shuddering starts in. Just like a coverter slipping... whole truck was jerking back and forth, like I was doing it with the throttle---not bad, but very noticeable. Went away when I gave it fuel. Is this what yall are experiencing? It has done it before recently, and seems to do it in any gear if I start to go less on the throttle. Kinda hard to explain.



I notice most of yall are 6 speeds... ... I'm an auto with the VA box, no other mods. Trans???? Or the dreaded unknown?



I am way under warranty but definitely wondering whats up.



Very Rogue
 
Join the club

Rogue

This is what we are all dealing with. It is like a mid throttle skip and no one seems to have the answer yet.

All I can say is keep reading and we will hopefully get the answer.
 
My pickup is at the dealer as I type this getting a new vp44 installed. I will be picking it up shortly and will post tonight if the hesitation/stumble is gone or not.
 
New VP44 installed this afternoon and I'm unhappy to report that it made no difference. Same symptoms as before. :( ????????????????
 
Sorry to here the bad news. The only thing it tells us is to look in another direction. I guess I would be looking at the crank sensor or the apps next.

I started a thread with a questionaire to try to narrow it down but haven't seen any interest yet.
 
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