Help!! 04 Engine Troubles

[DDoctorian]

My 04 developed a slight tapping sound and a miss. The tap and the miss would go away after a few miles. This happened twice a couple of days apart which made me think a valve was sticking or maybe an injector was trying to plug. The second time was like the first and it went away after a few miles. After it had set for 5 or 6 hours I tried to start it and it turn over slow 3 or 4 times like the batterys were weak then it fired and started running. At this point it sound like a van load of illegals were under the hood beating on the block with sledge hammers. I shut it off pronto. I started it again and it fired right up this time but with the same terrible noise. To me it sound like it had something on top of a piston. So I thought it must have drop a valve. The missing and the tapping should have been a clue as to what was about to happen. So I think the head needs to come off. Now I have the valve cover off and the rocker arms out but all the valves/springs/keeper/etc look ok. I pulled the injectors thinking maybe a tip had come off and they all look ok. I have heard about these injectors making big noise when they malfunction. Should I send them off and have them checked? Who should I send them to. I dont really want to pull the head without good reason. It doesn't seem likely that a valve came apart and everything stayed intact on the topside does it? Was the weak start due to fuel on top of the piston. Number six exhaust looks like it may have been wet although this happen a month ago and I am just now working on it so I cant say for sure. Anyway, I would appreciate any suggestion/experience/help. Thanks much dd

 

[RankRam]

Is the oil level in the normal range?

 

[DDoctorian]

Yes. The oil level is fine. None of the fluids seem to be mixed either such as oil and diesel etc.

 

[rbattelle]

Now I have the valve cover off and the rocker arms out but all the valves/springs/keeper/etc look ok.

Would a dropped valve seat show anything abnormal just looking top-down with the head still on?



Ryan

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

My 04 developed a slight tapping sound and a miss. The tap and the miss would go away after a few miles. This happened twice a couple of days apart which made me think a valve was sticking or maybe an injector was trying to plug. The second time was like the first and it went away after a few miles. After it had set for 5 or 6 hours I tried to start it and it turn over slow 3 or 4 times like the batterys were weak then it fired and started running. At this point it sound like a van load of illegals were under the hood beating on the block with sledge hammers. I shut it off pronto. I started it again and it fired right up this time but with the same terrible noise. To me it sound like it had something on top of a piston. So I thought it must have drop a valve. The missing and the tapping should have been a clue as to what was about to happen. So I think the head needs to come off. Now I have the valve cover off and the rocker arms out but all the valves/springs/keeper/etc look ok. I pulled the injectors thinking maybe a tip had come off and they all look ok. I have heard about these injectors making big noise when they malfunction. Should I send them off and have them checked? Who should I send them to. I dont really want to pull the head without good reason. It doesn't seem likely that a valve came apart and everything stayed intact on the topside does it? Was the weak start due to fuel on top of the piston. Number six exhaust looks like it may have been wet although this happen a month ago and I am just now working on it so I cant say for sure. Anyway, I would appreciate any suggestion/experience/help. Thanks much dd

Sounds exactly like my truck did when I changed nozzles on it once. It's a scary sound. I did the same thing, shut it down, and restarted it. After the third time, I let it run. It went away after about 30 seconds. My guess is, it was a stuck nozzle. They were new, which is why I let it run the third time. I would pull the injectors and get them checked out, since you had a miss a couple times prior. You might also try pulling the nozzle off, and cleaning them first, if you're fairly mechanically inclined. Don M, (F1 diesel), can check them for you, and rebuild them, if necessary, but you would have to contact one of his vendors to get it done.

 

[Motorhead]

Could your slow cranking be a fuel hydro lock? Sounds like you need to have the injectors checked or rebuilt.

 

[nickleinonen]

Would a dropped valve seat show anything abnormal just looking top-down with the head still on?



Ryan

maybe. . you would need all the rocker arms off and check the valve stem height or bar the engine over and see if one of the rockers has excessive play. . the only way to really see is with the head off [or all the nozzles out and a bore scope with mirror down the holes

 

[DDoctorian]

I assumed that the screwed up valve would have a little taller spring looking from the top side after the rocker arms were off. That could be a 50/50 proposition.

 

[DDoctorian]

After thinking about it a bit I wonder if the slow start was a hydro start thus the wet # 6 exhaust.

 

[DDoctorian]

Thanks for your input

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it. The more I read and hear the more I think it must be an injector. Here is the plan. I will find someone to check out these nozzles. Do they spray, do the solenoids work etc etc. I will scope the cylinders to make sure nothing is amiss between the piston and the head. I will but it back together and drive another 130K. Sounds good to me! Thanks again for the very helpful info.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Your engine might have dropped a valve seat. If so, that valve will stay partly open, which you can see upon careful inspection of all valve tips at the rocker bridges. There will also be a lot of valve lash at that position, perhaps . 055” vs. the normal . 010” or . 020”.

 

[JEstes]

Your engine might have dropped a valve seat. If so, that valve will stay partly open, which you can see upon careful inspection of all valve tips at the rocker bridges. There will also be a lot of valve lash at that position, perhaps . 055” vs. the normal . 010” or . 020”.

I'm not arguing, I'm just curious. How would the engine have dropped a valve seat without being abused? I've seen plenty of dropped valve seats in other diesels after the owner acted like an idiot, but I've never seen one drop for no apparent reason... .

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I saw one dropped in an engine that had seen high egt's repeatedly, and one in an engine that was stock and 80 miles on the clock.

 

[LMcCary]

It is rare, but seats just drop sometimes. A bad injector, wrong timing, high egts or faultly seat material/seat pocket. There are so many reasons.

 

[DDoctorian]

Update

The problem was an exhaust valve seat fell out on #5 cylinder. Bent the two exhaust valves and battered the piston. The piston isn't that bad but it had a small crack on the edge which made it inelgible for reuse IMO. So, two new valves and a seat = 25. 00, head gasket kit = 186. 49, piston and rings = 141. 60, test the injectors = 150. 00 (they tested ok), possibly a few head bolts, etc. etc. I expect we will be north of 600. 00 before this is over. If I could've found a used piston cheap that would have helped but no such luck. I haven't dropped the oil pan yet and removed the piston. I suppose there is an outside chance the rod might be bent. Lucky as I am maybe the shaft also.

One question I had... has anyone cut the crossmember out from under the pan to remove the oil pan. Any pointers appreciated. Thanks for the comments and questions. I appreciate the input.



dd

 

[rbattelle]

One question I had... has anyone cut the crossmember out from under the pan to remove the oil pan.

Wow! You're going to put it back, right?



If I were going to do that, I'd attach temporary supports before removing the cross member.



Then, after the job was done, rather than welding the cross member back in I'd fabricate one that could be bolted in place.



Ryan

 

[DDoctorian]

I was planning to bolt it back in much like the one under the transmission. Thanks

 

[rbattelle]

I was planning to bolt it back in much like the one under the transmission. Thanks

I think this goes without saying, but you're not going to drill and tap the frame, right? You'll fabricate brackets to weld to the frame, then bolt the cross member to those?



I don't think the frame is thick enough to tap.



Ryan

 

[DDoctorian]

Exactly. Well sorta. The brackets will be welded to the cross member, on either end of the pieces that gets cut out and also to the part of the cross member that will still be welded to the frame. Won't actually weld on the frame rail.

 

[rbattelle]

Exactly. Well sorta. The brackets will be welded to the cross member, on either end of the pieces that gets cut out and also to the part of the cross member that will still be welded to the frame. Won't actually weld on the frame rail.

Makes sense. Please, if you can, post pictures of this work! I'm interested to see how it turns out.



Imagine how convenient bottom end work would be with a removable cross member!



Ryan