Help! 60% power loss - Black Smoke - on vacation

[Millfly]

Need help guys,

Am on vacation in the Rockies pulling an 18K trailer and in last 200 miles problem developed. At first a slight puff of smoke when I began to accelerate when stopped with slight loss of power. Now have lost 40-60% of power when starting with a huge cloud of black smoke until I reach about 7 mph. Then the truck takes off as usual. Problem is getting up to that speed. Have a BD chip module and removed it - no change. Did not remove the boost module will do that tomorrow and test again. Diesel mechanic at local Dodge dealership quit on tuesday - guys just scratched their head, and saidsounded like a timing problem - they would call someone. Anyone have an idea what the problem might be at this time? Really appreciate some input. No good mechanic in the area. Thanks

 

[LSMITH]

Need info on the truck, what year ETC. What was the BD module that you removed?



I would guess from the info you gave that you have a loss of boost. Have you checked the boots on the intercooler and turbo? What are the EGT's like? Do you have gauges? Could also be a turbo problem. Black smoke is not enough air, sluggish performance with black smoke is no boost soon enough.



Where are you at? There are good wrenches all over if you know who they are.



Another thought is that boost is harder to get off the line in the high elevations. Keep in mind that the density (actual air density) altitude at just 7000 feet can be over 14000 feet in hot weather. With density altitudes of 10000 feet or more my 99 smoked pretty hard off the line and the turbo lag was tons worse than normal.

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

Well, you didn't state if you have climbed a lot in elevation in the last 200 miles but, it sounds like we should welcome you to the fun of high altitude towing. At 10,000 ft you have about 30% less air than at sea level, 30 % less power, and an overfueled condition (black smoke) until the boost builds up. Unfortunately the boost needs rpms to help build. With the trailer on holding down the rpm you have bigtime turbo lag.



With a 12 valve, you can adjust the starwheel to cut preboost fuel/smoke. I see by your profile you have a 24 valve with 275 injectors and a DTT torque converter. I don't know if you can adjust anything on the 24 valve. You did not state which DTT converter you have. You are seeing why Bill recommends a 89% converter for high altitude towing.



Seriously, in high altitude towing starts where I might have an unappreciative audience, I start out in manual 1st with a very light foot, when the speed and boost have built up I manually shift to 2nd, and repeat for the 2nd to 3rd shift. A light foot at 10,000 ft and letting the transmission shift on its own just lets the transmission shift immediately to 2nd and prolongs the low boost freight train smoke display/agony. There are times you fear you are going to get turned in by tree huggers (just say you are spraying for mosquitos).

 

[K_Arts]

Where abouts in the Rockies are you???



Kev

 

[HeberRam]

altitude------- DUDE

Boldt's... ... . right on... . Altitude "dude" it will get you everytime you climb.



I know, live at 5700 ft.

 

[**ICEMAN**]

sounds like a intercooler hose leak. i've had them pop completely off and have had them where there is just a small leak around the clamp produce the same problems you are having.



just a thought

 

[Millfly]

Thanks so much for the input! I am feeling better already. I apologize for the lack of info as I originally meant to mention the boost. You fellows are right on with your analysis. Boost upon starting is only 8 and reaches 13 in that early starting stage. Then the truck takes off with no smoke or power loss. At present I am in Durango, Colorado. I first noticed the problem on I-70 when I pulled off at Lima (spelled wrong - don't have map with me at present) I was headed west and do Know I was slowly climbing. Does not seem to be a power problem towing up mountains - just on start off. Took route 24 to 25 and then west on 160 to Alamosa. As the elevation increased, the problem became worse.

I don't know which converter I have percentage wise. I suspect it is Bill's 90+ version. I have not watched the boost gauge when starting previously but on hills I know it reaches around 30. Thanks again and if any others have advice, let me know.

 

[Ramboy]

Your problem sounds more like what I just experienced on a trip to Florida. I started having 2nd gear starts. Truck would not downshift to 1st without turning the key off and re-starting. Symptoms were the same--lots of smoke and what seemed to be loss of power till I got rolling and then everything was fine. I tow an 18K trailer also and it is a lot of weight to get moving. I called Bill and he told me to add a resistor to ECM wire. Fifteen minute job and everything is now perfect. You might have the same problem.

 

[jwdeeming]

This may be a long shot, but I just experienced a problem yesterday you may be interested in - I see you have a Pac Brake.



I was driving down the highway at 70 mph and my truck went to half power and the more I put my foot in it, the more it smoked. I pulled over and idle was fine. Since I'm used to hearing the pac brake hiss at idle, I didn't pay attention at first. I tried to accellerate and again, got smoke and half power. I got under the hood to look/listen. Decided to go switch off the pac brake so I could hear better and - walah! - e-brake won't shut off.



I tried to push the pac brake open manually and it wouldn't go. After a helpful (early Sunday morning) phone call to my DTT/pac brake installer, Bob Berends, he figured out that the little vacuum switch that connects two lines to the brake was not working properly. I disconnected those two vacuum lines, and then was able to push the brake open. Bob says I need to take that vacuum switch thingy (my terms, not Bobs - I have no idea what it's real name is) apart and clean it out. ((THANKS, BOB!))



I've also heard of and experienced that these brakes can start to get "sticky", either open or closed, and if you were taking off from a stop and that brake was not opening right away, I'm thinking you could be seeing the symptoms you're describing. If you shut off the pac brake, do you still have the problem?



Just something else to eliminate...

JimD

 

[LSMITH]

With the boost info I am pretty sure you do not have a boost or fuel problem. If you are hitting 30 with your mods it is not leaking. You can hit 13 PSI and it starts to drive off? And you get 8 PSI very quickly after starting? I would guess you are just feeling the altitude and weight combined with a very tight TC. It could be second gear starts, but I would think it would take longer than 7 mph to have the truck drive off. The only downside to the really tight TC's is the performace off the line. They take some time to get boost and RPM up to where the truck can pull.

 

[Joe Mc]

Millfly,



When in Durango check out Scoot - n Blues, Cafe` & Lounge. Good food and really cool bikes on display. We did Yellowstone last year and spent 3 days outside of Durango. Took the train ride to Silverton and visited an auto museum.



Enjoy the rest of the trip. Drop a PM when you get home. You are the first person that's located close to me on the TDR.



Joe Mc

 

[Millfly]

I'm super pleased with your analysis folks. Checked the clamps on the the turbo system. Three of the clamps seemed pretty loose, especially the second one back from the intercooler. (Nut was turned to the blind side and I suppose someone didn't bother to work too hard on it due to its position. ) Truck seemed to have gained half of the lost power after tightening. Will see for sure when I head for the Grand Canyon next week with the trailer hitched.

The gearing is OK and it does start in 1st. The boost starts out at 8 lbs. and reaches 13 at 7 mph when the truck takes off with no problems.

The PacBrake is not the problem - been there - done it. Just had the sticking problem after only 6 months. Would stick shut. At first I thought it was the vacuum valve sticking and cleaned it. Happened to be under the hood on a cold start with the PacBrake on and saw the hoses jump but the brake was stuck shut. Called PacBrake and they suggested the following: Disconnected the vacuum,s control rod to the butterfly and found it to be sticking so bad that if I pulled up on the butterfly, I could not move it at all. PacBrake said they would send me one of their new nitrate coated units that would not rust at all. When I exchanged it, I did notice a lot of carbon in it but did no scraping as they said their lab wanted to see why it was sticking. No problems 2000 miles later. Also, they said not to oil the valve as it was designed to be dry. I said I had cleaned it with WD40 so they sent me another one. PacBrake really worked with me on this and I certainly thank them.

I'd also like to thank you fellas for saving my butt!!! Thanks again for the input. Will drive at altitude with a light foot!

 

[jwdeeming]

30 minutes before I had my Pac Brake problem, I had been in a car wash and for some reason decided to hose around under the hood. I'm pretty sure I hit that vacuum valve with a direct shot of water, not knowing what the consequences might be.



Bob Berends was specific about cleaning that thing with brake cleaner. I thought that was a little harsh but I didn't ask him to clarify. Given I had hit it with water, I was thinking of using WD-40. I'm glad you posted about not doing that! Now I'll do what Bob said. He also told me to expect Pac Brake folks to be very helpful in solving the problem from there if that doesn't cure it.



Glad you're off and running again.



Enjoy Colorado - hope the fires aren't messing up any of your planned stops. Pray for rain!



JimD