Help...another lift pump question....

[BK]

did my fuel filter change today. . and filled the fuel cansister as I always do. Hit the key to start to just the on postion... expecting to hear the lift pump to run for 2 seconds or so like it has since day one... from what I remember it is real easy to hear... .

Didnt hear it, tried the bump to the start position, did more than just bump it... . the truck started real easy and runs fine. Took a test drive... no problems (no gauges. . was laid off just before I was gonna buy them).

Now back in the driveway I tried the bump start a few more times, hood was closed. Still couldnt hear the pump.

I opened the hood and tried it and turned of the radio in the garage. . now I could barely hear the pump run for 15 seconds or soo after bumping the starter and 2 seconds when I just put the key into the run mode... .



So I don't ever remember the lift pump being this quiet... .

????

going bad? gone? normal with the warm weather and a full fuel tank?



EDIT: SORRY , added my sig below... '99 2500 no bombing.



thanks-

Bob

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

You don't list what year your truck is (I hate it when that happens!) - But I have a new '02 (see MY sig below! ) and I haven't YET heard the lift pump activate when I tuen the key... Wonder if there is something missing on my new 'lil jewel... ?

 

[BK]

Gary, sorry, forgot to add my sig... did above. '99 no bombing.

 

[Doc Tinker]

That's how my lift pump acted just before it died completely. See if one of our TDR buds living near you has a test guage you can borrow and see what your pressure reads.



Doc

 

[BK]

Thanks Doc, thats what I suspected.



been on the phone with a full time mechanic friend and fellow TDR member that mostly lurks on the board. He has one he's gonna bring home monday night. Problem is he maynot have the right fittings, he's a dealer mechanic for an import car company. I dont have the shrader (sp?) valve.

My warranty is up the 25th of this month. !

Nothing like timing... . If his stuff doesnt fit I'm SOL.

I might decide to layout the bucks for a sender and gauge from Genos monday morning. got the weekend to decide.



(trucks coming off lease in August... need to refi- don't know if I'll get it since I've been out of fulltime work since 9/11. thats why I don't want to install the guages even if I had the money)



Been interviewing for a job over the last month. Now I have to go back in Wednesday. They want me, it's now down to the bucks. So with some optimizim... buy the setup from geno's with a rush shipment... just to test the pump so I dont have a -p- contest with the stealer. . my stealer hasnt been very good about warranty work. And the other stealers around wont work on it unless you bought it from them. They discourge you buy giving you an appointment atlest a month, if not two from the time you called.

 

[BK]

Got numbers... from SnapOn guages.

Order UPS red a 30psi guage with send from Genos. . the 15psi guages are on back order.



A friend lent me his SnapOn pressure gauge... 340swing. . max 150psi. . ugh... 2. 5psi increments. . 0-10psi is only a 1/4 inch swing...

came up with 5psi making it's way up to 8psi with the starter bump trick.

Running, idle = 8psi MAX. . takes a minute to get up there from 5psi again.

@3K rpm at curb side we go down to 5psi.



My other friend came over with his SnapOn transducer and Fluke adapter. Confirmed the curb numbers, but had more then enough wire length to take a run and catch the min psi on the min hold function.

AT WOT, the min caught was 2psi. By eye saw as low as 2. 5psi.

when just cruzing at speed ~ 7. 3psi



So it sounds as if it's not a happy pump?



Now I need to see if I can talk the dealer into the fact that it's not a happy lift pump.

For the record 35. 5 months and ~26K miles.

I also think this was the electrical burning smell I couldnt find for a year. It only would happen when really using the truck hard when towing. And wouldnt happen all the time... like I would guess if the smell was brakes or the puke tube. .

 

[BK]

went to the dealer today for 5star warranty service



told them I was waiting for the truck, needs a lift pump and maybe a '44.



Explained that I no longer could hear the lift pump which is what prompted the visit...

history : been having a burning electrical smell from the driver's side of the engine. last time it happened, going up a grade... didnt have the power, started to smell the smell. Went home. Realized I couldnt hear the lift pump anymore. Got gauges, found 8psi idle, 3-4psi@3krpm, 2psi at WOT moving.



Round 1 today with the dealer: 9am (they started at 8am)

Dealer checked codes and said they found nothing wrong and the truck runs fine, and that when a lift pump is bad... . you get a bad running truck and white smoke. I agrued that the lift pumps go slowly... mine's probably been going since I 1st got the smell when hauling butt... . probably the '44 not getting enough cooling.

They said they'd check pressures next... and they were doing TSB 18-11-99 for my power complaint. I said the lower power was from the Lift pump being bad... starving the '44... . But the Star tech told them todo the TSB reflash 1st and double check the pressures... Geezzz talking about getting off tangent...

Service manager addes that the truck wasnt designed go that fast (60-70mph) while towing my trailer, suppose to be doing 55. . I said and "what happens when I leave NY and I'm in 75mph speedlimits with min of 60mph? - your trying to tell me Dodge designed a truck that will get me a ticket?"... the service manager shut up.





Round 2:10:30am

TSB reflash went ok.

dealer tech checked pressures and called Dodge Star hotline. . spoke to Cummins tech. : Pressures measured by Dodge... 12psi@idle 10psi@3Krpm. Dodge Star Cummins Tech said must be 10psi or more. . if it is. . Lift pump ok.

I argued that I measured my numbers on three totally different setups over two days. . I say " sorry I know the pump is bad and your numbers are off"... I asked if the drove it with their guage attached. . they said no, the Star tech didn't say anything about that... I said well thats real world..... So they did and came up with 4. 5psi@WOT on road!! Finally



Round 3:11:30am

They call the Star tech back and told them about the road test.

The tech at the dealer didnt know if taking the numbers on the road was "legal". When he spoke to the Star tech they told him that they pump is bad!!!! and to double check the trouble codes for signs of the '44 being hurt. No codes, so they arent going to replace the '44. Now the dealer tech tells the service manager the news, as they are talking I walk over to listen. . "he's (me) right the lift pump is bad according to Cummins. And Guess what the Star cummins tech says the lift pump being bad can kill the '44 now and it could even die later from the lift pump being bad now. "

After that the attitude of the service manager and dealer tech changed towards me. You could tell at 1st they didnt believe me... which in the end turned into them getting an education and me a power increase via the tsb and a new lift pump.



They had a lift pump in stock. . they had order a few just before they went on restriction.



Left dealer at 12:15pm



Came home , installed my westech fp gauge. . 14. 5psi @ idle, 12-12. 5 at 3K. . havent had a chance to go up the grade with WOT yet. Did get into triple digit speeds on the way home , on some grades, no burning smell. Can't hear the new lift pump... no where near as noisey as the old one before it died.



I must say, this was a new serivce manager. . but let me tell you he was better than the old one I've butted heads with before. The original service manager wouldnt let you speak with the techs. The truck went in, the truck came out. . and that was it. What was done is what was done. The only reason I made any head way was that this new service manager didnt get inbetween me and the tech.