Help Death Wobble

[LAugustine]

My 03 4x4 sb has developed a death wobble at 70 mph over rough pavement. Violent up and down, side to side shudder until I slow to under 50 mph. I have 315's and Rancho 9000 9 ways on. I've rotated and balanced the tires, put on a new steering stabilizer, had a four wheel alignment. I think it could be a bad shock, feels predominatly to be the left side. The shocks are only 1. 5 years old. Anybody have any failures with this set up ? I also have Daystar 2 " leveling kit, contributing?

 

[Patriot_RAM]

A lot of people with the cheaper 2" leveling kit developed the DW after installing the kit. If I were you, I would take it off and see if it stops. If it does, get a kit from www.koreperformance.com and you likely won't have the problem. Search for posts from "Yo Hoot" for more info...

 

[Spooled-up]

Someone on here cured the DW by using a set of Kore's Billet Drop Blocks that lower the sway bar and put it back in the "sweet spot". Might be worth a try.

 

[sarj]

I second that bit on Kore's Billet Drop Blocks that lower the sway bar. I haven't had any problems with vibration at all but I think I'm going to drop those in anyway. It could only help.



sarj

 

[Kry226]

Caster can also be to blame. Make sure you've got at least +5* caster. But I also second the KORE solution over the spacers. Less chance of DW and MUCH better ride.

 

[Bertram65]

How can there be less chance of DW with springs vs spacers when the problem is caster? It does not matter how the lift is achieved it is caster that is the problem.

 

[Yo Hoot]

How can there be less chance of DW with springs vs spacers when the problem is caster? It does not matter how the lift is achieved it is caster that is the problem.

I don't know if there is a differenc of a problem between the two setups but they certainly do effect suspension differently. Spacers use the stock springs but change the angle of the control arms and stabilizer bar with no increase in suspension travel/performance.



Performance springs such as Kore systems springs increase suspension travel and performace, effecting your suspension differently (favorably). They don't build the systems with only lift in mind. Lift is required for adequate ground clearance and tire clearance with the increased travel. Not for show. (Although it sure does look better sitting a bit higher IMHO)



With DW and a lifted front end, it's hard to say what is THE key except that we know we need tight front ends, sometimes caster adjustments and the stabilizer bar MUST be dropped. Whether you make your own drop blocks or buy the set from Kore... . I have found it is a must.

 

[ZRacer]

My 03' has 40,000 miles on it and has developed a bad wobble whenever I hit rough pavement, especially with a slight turn. My truck is bone stock. Haven't had any handling problems until recently. I should take that back, not completely stock, running BFG 315's. Had them on the truck since new, no issues until now. Was wondering if the steering damper/shock wear out rapidly or if the stock shocks wear out rapidly? I have been thinking of adding a set of Kore valved Bilstiens for stock trucks. Any suggestions you guys have would be appreciated. Thanks, PmG.

 

[Yo Hoot]

My 03' has 40,000 miles on it and has developed a bad wobble whenever I hit rough pavement, especially with a slight turn. My truck is bone stock. Haven't had any handling problems until recently. I should take that back, not completely stock, running BFG 315's. Had them on the truck since new, no issues until now. Was wondering if the steering damper/shock wear out rapidly or if the stock shocks wear out rapidly? I have been thinking of adding a set of Kore valved Bilstiens for stock trucks. Any suggestions you guys have would be appreciated. Thanks, PmG.

First things first... . get the front end checked out. Your ball joints may be suspect. Yes also look into the stabilzer shock.



Have your tires checked also for balance.

 

[Matt400]

First things first... . get the front end checked out. Your ball joints may be suspect.

I agree totally and would lay money on the ball joints. There is only one way to check them:

Raise the front wheels off the ground about 2-3 inches and place a big pry bar under the tire and see if you can get movement in the joints by pulling up on the bar.



Rocking the tire with your hands usually wont show the free play.



The joints start and set up the wobble then from there other things will accentuate the magnitude of it such as a loose track bar mount, larger tires or poor alignment.

 

[ZRacer]

Never would have thought of checking the ball joints this early. Thanks for the suggestions. I will crank up the front and start checking the wear on the stabilizer and ball joints. Guess the best place to start is with the basics. Thanks again. I will let you guys know what I find. PmG

 

[Bertram65]

I don't know if there is a differenc of a problem between the two setups but they certainly do effect suspension differently. Spacers use the stock springs but change the angle of the control arms and stabilizer bar with no increase in suspension travel/performance.



Performance springs such as Kore systems springs increase suspension travel and performace, effecting your suspension differently (favorably). They don't build the systems with only lift in mind. Lift is required for adequate ground clearance and tire clearance with the increased travel. Not for show. (Although it sure does look better sitting a bit higher IMHO)



With DW and a lifted front end, it's hard to say what is THE key except that we know we need tight front ends, sometimes caster adjustments and the stabilizer bar MUST be dropped. Whether you make your own drop blocks or buy the set from Kore... . I have found it is a must.

Replacment springs have the same effect on the angle of the control arms and stabilizer bar. I highly doubt the increased travel, which is probably less than in inch and increased performance do anything to prevent DW. Spacers are just as effective to achieve a different stance on the truck and just as likely to cause DW if everthing is not put back to factory specs after they are installed.

 

[Matt400]

Never would have thought of checking the ball joints this early.

You would be surprised. . check out this thread

 

[Yo Hoot]

Replacment springs have the same effect on the angle of the control arms and stabilizer bar. I highly doubt the increased travel, which is probably less than in inch and increased performance do anything to prevent DW. Spacers are just as effective to achieve a different stance on the truck and just as likely to cause DW if everthing is not put back to factory specs after they are installed.

I agree with all you said except travel. Research the Kore suspension then come back.

 

[Bertram65]

I agree with all you said except travel. Research the Kore suspension then come back.

I think I may have heard of it once or twice on here , It would be very difficult for a 2" increase in ride hieght to equate to any significant increase in travel, the pictures on your site really back that up in fact, it is just not possible, the compressed hieght of the stock spring is obviously less than the replacement spring, but the replacement spring has more turns therefore it's compressed hieght is greater than stock, how much, probably at least an inch, subtract that from the hieght increase. The only way you could realize a significant increase in travel would be if the taller replacement coils had the same or less number of turns.

Nothing against the stuff you are using, I am sure it is great.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I think I may have heard of it once or twice on here , It would be very difficult for a 2" increase in ride hieght to equate to any significant increase in travel, the pictures on your site really back that up in fact, it is just not possible, the compressed hieght of the stock spring is obviously less than the replacement spring, but the replacement spring has more turns therefore it's compressed hieght is greater than stock, how much, probably at least an inch, subtract that from the hieght increase. The only way you could realize a significant increase in travel would be if the taller replacement coils had the same or less number of turns.

Nothing against the stuff you are using, I am sure it is great.

Kore claims 50% more travel.

 

[kentkroeker]

Bertram 65,



"The only way you could realize a significant increase in travel would be if the taller replacement coils had the same or less number of turns. "



I think you're making the assumption that the OE coils go into bind at full bump - they don't. If they did, they wouldn't last very long because the thin OE spring material would quickly fatigue. DC engineered a lot of space for their coils in order to help them live a long time. When I designed the KORE coils I took advantage of all that extra space - and there's plenty of it. At full bump on a late model Ram using OE bump stops, KORE HD Diesel Coils still have 2. 5" to go before they go solid - and these are big springs with more coils and a much thicker bar diameter than OE. Incidentally the theoretical "set height" (the point at which the material becomes fatigued and actually bends) of our coils is lower than their solid height, so, by design, they can cycle infinitely without fatiguing.



As for spacers vs. coils for lift/travel - bigger (not just taller) coils work better for a lot of reasons - the main one being that the positions of your lower spring perches (on the axle housing) change relative to the upper spring perches (on the frame) as the suspension cycles. The control arms move on an arc that shifts the lower perch fore to aft, and the track bar moves these perches left to right, so the spring has to absorb this somewhat circular movement. If you use a spacer in conjunction with the OE coil you force the coil into an unnatural position. The lower perches are moved back and to the driver's side and the upper perches are effectively lowered straight down causing some weird geometry. This weird geometry is better absorbed by a long, stout coil because the entire coil can flex about. The ideal situation from a wheel-travel standpoint is a coil-over that permits the spring to be constantly aligned and bearings (heims) at each end of the coil carrier to account for cross-lateral deflection etc. There's a lot more to it than this, but I can feel myself starting to geek out, so I'll cut this subject short.



With OE bump stops a KORE Chase system yields 9. 5" of combined, linear bump and droop travel - depending on the truck - 9. 0" if limit straps are used correctly. How much more travel is this than stock? Depends on the truck. Most 3rd Generation Rams yield about 2 - 3 inches of bump (including bump stop compression) and roughly 3 - 4 inches of droop, for about 6 inches of total travel. In this case 9. 5" doesn't equate to a 50% increase but some trucks only give 4. 5" to 5" total, so we're in the ballpark for the front. The rear is a whole different story. Sometimes we can get much more than 50% more effective travel.



Is significantly more travel possible? You bet! We could get even more if we weren't limited by other elements such as control arm bushings, track bars and steering components. These Dodge trucks are great by design; we're simply figuring out how to maximize their potential.



Over and Out,



Kent Kroeker

 

[kentkroeker]

By the way, DC claims 10. 9" front and 10. 7" of wheel travel for the new Power Wagon. The truck sits 1. 8" higher in front and 1. 4" higher in the rear. The front coils are longer like our coils and the rear leaf pack looks a lot like a leaf pack with our mini pak installed - no big overload leaf on the bottom - just a tight, progressive stack, like a race truck. Sound like a familiar design? It may become even more "familiar" soon because, at their request, DC is currently testing some unique KORE parts to use on this model.



I'm not sure how they're measuring travel - most likely from the shock shaft, the point that seems to yield the highest numerical value. Our measurements all come from the center point of the axle, the point that we feel best represents the term "wheel travel. " I'm also not sure how they're limiting droop. I haven't had the opportunity to play with one of these new trucks but I hope they're not using the shock to limit droop travel. Droop is properly limited by something not associated with shocks, bushings or bearings - i. e. metal parts. KORE suspension systems use limit straps to absorb the energy of topping out. This reduces droop travel by . 5" to 1" but saves other components from damage.



Kent Kroeker

 

[LAugustine]

Thanks for all the info guys. I guess I have my work cut out for me. .