Help!! Do all 05's have a shudder/vibration problem

[RedSled]

I ordered a new 05 laramie long bed last week. It came in this moring with 94 miles on it. I told the salesman I wanted to drive it before doing the paperwork. Boy am I glad I did.



At 5 mph under light to moderate acceleration there is a significant vibration. My wife drove it and could feel it also. We took it back and told the salesman "no deal".



He started with the "but its a diesel they vibrate" to "its not really a big deal". I told him I was not going to buy it period. He went and got the head honcho guy and they had the Saturday tech look at it.



The tech said "oh its just a bad carrier bearing we can replace that and it will be fine". He later said he could pull the whole driveline off another one and swap them and replace the bearing.



Based on what I have read here the vibration problem seems to be a reoccuring problem.



What is the problem?

what is the fix?

can it be fixed?

Do all 05's have this problem?

If they replace the driveline and bearing will it come back?





Thanks in advance. I could really use some insight to this problem. I am real close to purchasing another brand.

 

[RJOL]

Most of the vibration problems have been at higher speeds (70mph+). If your getting a vibration at 5mph, under acceleration, it sounds like something in the drivetrain/engine is making contact with the body. If it is significant, I would not sign anything until you're satisfied it is right. I've got just over 5K on mine and I don't have any significant vibrations at any speed. Good Luck...

 

[KCJackson]

Check the sticker on that rig... could simply be the limited-slip. I can make mine shudder at that speed if I throttle the engine juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust right. Otherwise, I have no vibes or shakes... build date was Feb 2 2005.

 

[RedSled]

Thanks for the replys

It is a limited slip, but we were on dry pavement. I never drove it up to 70 as I was pretty freaked out that it was shuddering at 5mph. since I posted I did a few searches, and there are quite a few posts under the topic of Launch shudder. I guess that is what that truck has.



My concern is if something is wrong and they change the entire driveshaft, and carrier bearing, will this come back in 5k miles or so?



I am sick, as my mind was set on this brand/truck, but I don't want to buy it if there is or are design flaws.



Thanks again



has anyone that has the launch shudder sucessfully fixed it?

 

[67guzzler]

Research...

Sled -- I went and googled for some more information. I read that the launch shudder problem can happen on any brand. I found a link for a TSB from DiamlerChrysler for the 2004 model year. This may or may not apply:



http://dodgeram. info/tsb/2004/03-003-04.htm



Here is the thread at RV. Net where I found the information.



I also did a search here on TDR in the 3rd gen forms on the word "shudder" and got a lot of results.



I hope this helps!

 

[NDanecker]

has anyone that has the launch shudder sucessfully fixed it?

After my center joint failed at 28k and rear joint failed at 31k and not being able to fix my vibration issue, I decided to swap out the two piece driveshaft for 1 piece driveshaft. Since then no problems. All my vibration issues are gone - at 0 to 10 mph and at 75 mph. I ran a test towing ~5k lbs doing short acceleration burst with juice on level 5 with no issues. Its also MUCH smoother now during shifts with no driveline slop as is with the 2 piece shaft (I've got a 6 spd manual).



I did some research and concluded this. Its not so much a bad design, but rather the wrong application for our trucks. The quad cab LWB could have easily used a 1 piece shaft instead. There isn't enough room, IMO, to properly set it up a 2-pc driveshaft to accommodate every payload and truck weight configuration. In addition, a short second shaft will yield some steep angles when the rear axle articulates during travel and when loaded thus causing more issues.



To get a two piece design to work properly in this application, you need to shim the center bearing to hold both shafts parallel to each other or the first shaft parallel to the transmission output shaft. Since the second option really isn't feasible with such a close transmission to axle distance with 2-pc driveshaft, you have to keep both shafts parallel. If not, the difference in angle causes the first shaft to accelerate out of sync to the second shaft as it decelerates (basic physics of the standard Hooke type U-joint). This causes pressure on the center joint forcing it out of alignment - thus the side load to the center bushing and vibration. The issue DC has (IMO) is every truck comes off the assembly line slightly different. Build up of tolerances. This requires DC to custom tune every center shaft bushing which they probably don't do. This also explains why some trucks have the vibration while some do. There is a TSB out for this that instructions the dealer to measure both shafts and apply the appropriate shim pack to the center bushing mount.



Since DC used u-joints without grease fittings they can not be serviced (greased). If there is insufficient grease during assembly (which is the case), these joints will heat up and seize over time. Add vibration to the equation and you get premature joint failure.

 

[JHardwick]

The quad cab LWB could have easily used a 1 piece shaft instead. There isn't enough room, IMO, to properly set it up a 2-pc driveshaft to accommodate every payload and truck weight configuration.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but my girlfriends '01 short bed Chevy (gasser) has a 2 pc. driveshaft and is 70,000 into the factory joints. In fact it has only been back to the dealer once ... ... ..... for a recall on tailgate cables that could rust and break.

 

[JasonCzerak]

After my center joint failed at 28k and rear joint failed at 31k and not being able to fix my vibration issue, I decided to swap out the two piece driveshaft for 1 piece driveshaft. Since then no problems. All my vibration issues are gone - at 0 to 10 mph and at 75 mph. I ran a test towing ~5k lbs doing short acceleration burst with juice on level 5 with no issues. Its also MUCH smoother now during shifts with no driveline slop as is with the 2 piece shaft (I've got a 6 spd manual).



I did some research and concluded this. Its not so much a bad design, but rather the wrong application for our trucks. The quad cab LWB could have easily used a 1 piece shaft instead. There isn't enough room, IMO, to properly set it up a 2-pc driveshaft to accommodate every payload and truck weight configuration. In addition, a short second shaft will yield some steep angles when the rear axle articulates during travel and when loaded thus causing more issues.



To get a two piece design to work properly in this application, you need to shim the center bearing to hold both shafts parallel to each other or the first shaft parallel to the transmission output shaft. Since the second option really isn't feasible with such a close transmission to axle distance with 2-pc driveshaft, you have to keep both shafts parallel. If not, the difference in angle causes the first shaft to accelerate out of sync to the second shaft as it decelerates (basic physics of the standard Hooke type U-joint). This causes pressure on the center joint forcing it out of alignment - thus the side load to the center bushing and vibration. The issue DC has (IMO) is every truck comes off the assembly line slightly different. Build up of tolerances. This requires DC to custom tune every center shaft bushing which they probably don't do. This also explains why some trucks have the vibration while some do. There is a TSB out for this that instructions the dealer to measure both shafts and apply the appropriate shim pack to the center bushing mount.



Since DC used u-joints without grease fittings they can not be serviced (greased). If there is insufficient grease during assembly (which is the case), these joints will heat up and seize over time. Add vibration to the equation and you get premature joint failure.

Umm did this vibration show up in the clutch and accelerator pedal also?

 

[RedSled]

update/long rant

I have obsessed with this all weekend. I really want a dodge, but don't want a freaking lemon. $40K is hard to part with for something that isnt right.



Here is what I have learned so far. I hope this helps someone.



TDR issues 45, 46, and 47 all contain a reference to the launch shudder problem. Issue 46 explains exactly what i felt its on page 117. It references a TSB about driveline angles but doesn't seem like a sure fix.



Issue 47 page 109 mentions 2 different fixes one for launch shudder and one for the 70 mph vibration.



Isssue 45 page 105 has a real good article about fixing the 70 mph vibe. It says that about 20 -30% of the trucks sold have the 70mph vibe. It has even been given the nickname "the big V".



I am sorry, I do like the dodge truck but that makes me ****** off!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can I buy a new truck a $40K and have a 70% chance it doesn't vibrate at 70mph.



I havent seen any estimate of how many trucks have the launch shudder problem. From my short test drive I can tell you I don't want a truck like that, nor do I want to deal with getting it fixed or lemon law crap. If chevy or dodge didn't have issues I would buy one in a second.



I test drove a 05 ford and I liked it(don' tell any of my friends or I will have to eat crow for a year). I got on their website and found nothing but issues. Why cant someone build a reliable truck and fix the freaking issues with them when they happen. The TDR has reported an issue with "the big V" since the august 04 issue (if not before). Why hasn't it been fixed?????? WTF!! The "grandpa" looking Chevy/GMC trucks have an overheating issue, and the nice looking Fords, with the tennis court sized back seat, will leak oil all over your garage.



I want a truck that is reliable, and is backed by a company that will actually try to fix it when there is an issue. When will the Japaneese build a real full size diesel truck???



sorry for the long rant. I am ******. I need/want a new truck and I am real dissapointed in the reviews of all the trucks I drove this weekend.

 

[JCastilleja]

Sorry to hear you have had a bad experience. I have not experienced any problems with my 05! I love my truck and wouldn't trade it for anything... . well maybe the new Charger, but that is for another thread! Good Luck to you... whatever you choose!

 

[RJOL]

... sorry for the long rant. I am ******. I need/want a new truck and I am real dissapointed in the reviews of all the trucks I drove this weekend.

Just take it for a "extensive" test drive. I took mine out to the freeway and tested it at all speeds up to 75+mph. I would have rejected it if there was any sign of unusual vibration or any thing else I didn't like. Don't buy it if you have doubts about it as you will get to hate it in a hurry...

 

[JCleary]

I have obsessed with this all weekend. I really want a dodge, but don't want a freaking lemon. $40K is hard to part with for something that isnt right.



Here is what I have learned so far. I hope this helps someone.



TDR issues 45, 46, and 47 all contain a reference to the launch shudder problem. Issue 46 explains exactly what i felt its on page 117. It references a TSB about driveline angles but doesn't seem like a sure fix.



Issue 47 page 109 mentions 2 different fixes one for launch shudder and one for the 70 mph vibration.



Isssue 45 page 105 has a real good article about fixing the 70 mph vibe. It says that about 20 -30% of the trucks sold have the 70mph vibe. It has even been given the nickname "the big V".



I am sorry, I do like the dodge truck but that makes me ****** off!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can I buy a new truck a $40K and have a 70% chance it doesn't vibrate at 70mph.



I havent seen any estimate of how many trucks have the launch shudder problem. From my short test drive I can tell you I don't want a truck like that, nor do I want to deal with getting it fixed or lemon law crap. If chevy or dodge didn't have issues I would buy one in a second.



I test drove a 05 ford and I liked it(don' tell any of my friends or I will have to eat crow for a year). I got on their website and found nothing but issues. Why cant someone build a reliable truck and fix the freaking issues with them when they happen. The TDR has reported an issue with "the big V" since the august 04 issue (if not before). Why hasn't it been fixed?????? WTF!! The "grandpa" looking Chevy/GMC trucks have an overheating issue, and the nice looking Fords, with the tennis court sized back seat, will leak oil all over your garage.



I want a truck that is reliable, and is backed by a company that will actually try to fix it when there is an issue. When will the Japaneese build a real full size diesel truck???



sorry for the long rant. I am ******. I need/want a new truck and I am real dissapointed in the reviews of all the trucks I drove this weekend.

You have the option of finding another truck just like it, without the problems you indicate.



I can tell you from experience with the 6. 0 (two here at our shop) that owning a Ford will be much more frustrating than owning a Dodge. Every manufacturer has its problems, just be persistent and find the right Dodge.



At least the problems with the Dodge trucks are evident from Day 1. You don't have to wait 10k miles to find your truck leaking oil, puking coolant, tossing a VG turbo, eating a Torqshift, or dropping injectors (well, it seems DC has the injector thing fixed for now).



Be patient and make the right decision. I looked at all trucks available, and would have purchased a Ford if we didn't have two at the shop. Within 25k miles on both trucks we replaced multiple injectors, one turbo, dealt with oil leaks, and check engine lights with no fixes from FoMoCo. Luckily we don't tow/haul heavy, as we'd surely be lifting heads and puking coolant, or replacing the transmissions.



On edit: The only issues I have had with my '03 are the door seals, and the window tint on the front doors getting thrashed by the door (there's a TSB for older 3rd gens to fix this). My truck has 29k miles now...

 

[Stretch]

I too experienced the launch shudder. I drove multiple duallies with both the . 410 and . 373 rear ends and the auto transmission (48RE). I had the launch shudder on all of them; you could actually see the twisting force the drive line produced on the rear axle, quite a sight.



I ordered my truck and it was built (in Mexico) and delivered in May 05 to Dave Smith's in Idaho. I drove the truck from there to Southern Oregon and back up to Alaska with a 4k pound Slide-In Camper and with the load properly balanced I do not get the launch shudder.



I still get the shudder when I am empty and I attribute this to drive train allignment as NJT has suggested. As is stated there is a TSB and if you get something you do not like they should fix it to your satisfaction.



I understand your reluctance as I went through the same frustration with this issue, but after seeing and reading of the quality of other vehicles, I am happy I chose the CTD and will keep a watchful eye on my drive train.



Cheers and good luck in your search.

 

[RockinJ]

My 2500 LWB was built 5/20/05 and has a G56 with limited slip 3. 73's. Absolutely no vibes or shudders empty from launch thru 75 mph (yet). I'll report back if something should change.

 

[RedSled]

Im still searching

Well I am still searching for the one I want (Dodge that is). The 05 2500 4x4 LWB 4door Laramie auto. They are actually pretty scarce. I worked with the dealer yesterday and we found 4 within a 200 mile radius. 2 black/silver, 1 white, 1 silver.



1 of the blacks was built almost a year ago (septmber 04) which scares me. The other 3 were built jan -feb 05.



I given the dealer my preferences in order and asked him to get the one that doesn't have the BIG V.



The one I test drove this weekend with the "V" went in the shop yesterday morning. I gave the dealer a copy of the article with the various fixes for the vibration. Prior to that he thought I was full of S#!~ about the vibration problem. He kept telling me they had never ever had a problem with a new truck. Funny thing is the service manager had already told me that they typically fix this by replacing the drive shaft.



They spent all day yesterday trying to get it fixed with no luck so far. I don't know what steps they tried, but its not fixed after 8 hours.



Hopefully I can get a truck soon. Oo. Oo.

 

[JCrockett]

1 of the blacks was built almost a year ago (septmber 04) which scares me. The other 3 were built jan -feb 05.

I picked up my 05 on feb 10, It was built in January, not sure of the exact date. It was built in Mexico also. I have 8K on the ticker and no vibe problems what so ever... ... ... so far.

Hope you find a good one

 

[RedSled]

WELL, Im going to do it!

finally found an 05 truck located 2 hours from the dealer, and had it brought in to check it out.



Here is the deal. I picked it up yesterday a noon, and immediately felt a slight launch shudder. Less than the other one I tested, but still evident. I was ******. I almost drove back and said keep it, but I figured I could take it home and mess with the drive alignment as see what happens. I tested for the 70mph vibe and found nothing, smooth as silk.



I got home an fasted a string to the center of the U-joint cap, where it exits the rear, and streched it to the center of the cap where it exits the trans. The center bearing and center u joint were off about 3/8 inch. Actually the U-joint was off about 1/4 and the center bearing about 3/8. I loosened the center bearing and moved it all the way over toward the side it needed to go. That brought the u-ujoint in alignment with the other two joints, and the center joint appears to be about 1/8th off. I test drove it and about 60-70% of the shudder was gone.



Not good enough for a $47K vehicle. Next I added 2 washers as spacers between the center bearing and were it mounts. 2 bolts with 2 washers about 1/8 to a 1/4 inch lower I guess. I went for a test drive and really couldn't feel much. If I did it exactly right I could feel the slighest pulse.



I added 1 more washer for a total of 3 to each bolt. Now the bolts were too short, only just grabbing the nut. I found 2 longer bolts and used those. On test drive I couldn't feel anything.



I then filled 6 trash cans full of water and went for a drive and feel nothing!!!!! Oo. Oo. Oo.



I tested it again at 70, with no vibes!



I have driven the truck about 100 miles since my little test and it appears the shudder is gone. A few times I thought I might feel it, but it also could be the road surface. I think its good enough for me!! I am going to sign the papers today.



Hopefully this helps someone else!



Essentially I performed the shadetree version of the 03-003-04 without the fancy tool. The TSB mentions 8 bracket sizes that can be used to either lower, or raise the center bearing. The sizes range from 14MM to 133. 9MM



Does anyone know what the original bracket measurement is? I am curious to know what equivelent bracket I could use, I'm not sure if 3 washers shimming my center bearing is the strongest design. any comments?

 

[67guzzler]

I'm curious. Now that you know how to fix it, do you want the one you ordered originally that has exactly what you want? Or would that be too risky given that you can't guarantee that you can fix that one... ????

 

[FloridaEd]

My '00 PSD has a two-piece drive shaft and it will shudder around 5 MPH under medium acceleration... Ford even has a special "BLUE" lubricant to lube the area where the spline connects the two pieces of the drive shaft. I had an '82 Volvo with that irritatiing shudder, also around 5 MPH.



I just finally learned to live with it.





Florida Ed

 

[lilthumper]

Vibration @ 2000-2300 rpm

I have read about the big V. My truck starts to buzz a little bit at 70-80 mph. I feel it in the steering wheel. I noticed that it will do it at all speeds as long as the tach is in the 2000-2300 range. Is this just a little buzz I should deal with being a straight six cummins? It is only noticeable because the truck sounds like a smooth gasser other than the 2000-2300 rpm buzz. Any suggestions?