Help on $$$$ of Rheem On Demand Hot Water Heater

[hammersley]

OK - Northwest Natural Gas has a promotion ($250 in gas credit) for installing a Rheem, and with the $1500 energy credit... . I was looking at this... . now here's the issue.



I have an existing house - 11 years old - we had it built. It has a 50 gallon high capacity gas water heater. It is located in the heated garage and who knows how long the thing will last... . but I've been told they arent' as good as they use to be.....



I had an estimate on installing a New Rheem..... the total came in at $3400! He can install it where the old tank is located... but has to run a new vent line up inside my Tall garage (15' High) and run it across the ceiling to exit the oppossite side wall.



Rheem Tankless Gas Water Heaters - Tankless 66 Indoor Direct Vent Series



Obviously I'm concerned about the $$$$$. Even with the 30% credit and the $250, it will cost $2130!



Now about my existing gas bill... We have a complete gas house... ... including a gas grill. So that means gas range, gas dryer, gas water heater, fireplace and furnace. When I look at my gas expense during the summer... . June-to Aug, teh gas bill is about $40---(soon to go down 20%). Now that bill is for water heat (we run the washer several times a week for water and dryer) as well as the range and the dishwasher every day.



OK so I assume that at teh worst 3/4's of my bill is for hot water - or $30. And with a max savings of 50% for an tankless system... . maybe $15/month! When I told the gas folks this thye said but during the winter the water is colder and takes more gas to heat it..... maybe a little... but I don't think very much... . the ground temperature is pretty constant... .



Give me your thoughts..... and bear in mind that at some point my existing one will go south..... and at that point there may not be any energy credits.....



This is my current hot water heater... . AO Smith 50 gal. #FSGT-50 is an extra high recovery (61. gallons an hour), but not self-cleaning.



CODE COMPLIANCE: H. U. D. , ASHRAE/IES 90. lb-1992 and 1990 NAECA.



A. G. A. CERTIFIED - To ANSI standards for residential water heaters. All models are approved for use in combined appliance applications.



FOAM INSULATION - Minimizes radiant heat loss.



GLASS-LINED TANK - Glass, specifically developed by A. 0. Smith ceramic research for water heater use, is fused to steel at 1600'F. , providing corrosion protection for years of dependable use. Proven reliable in millions of water heaters for over 50 years.



DIP TUBE - Carries inlet water deep into tank.



ANODE - Tank-mounted, screw-in anode for longer tank life



THERMOSTAT - Designed for long service life. Safety shutoff provided. Propane models have built-in filter and dirt leg provided.



BURNER - All steel, multipart burner for improved combustion efficiency. FSGT has a stainless steel burner



SELF CLOSING INNER DOOR - Supplied as a standard feature on all models.



DRAFT DIVERTER - Supplied with screw anchor tabs for secure connection to the top cover.



NON-LINTING ENERGY SAVING PILOT



DRAIN VALVE - Non-metallic valves



HIGH RECOVERY MODEL Model # FSGT-50 recovers 61. 4 gallons per hour.

 

[rscurtis]

You might want to determine if a tankless requires 110v to operate. Personally, I would keep what you have. I had a 30 year old water heater in my house on LI, but I changed it rather than move it to another location. I replaced it with a 40 gallon low-profile, but who knows how much longer it would have lasted. I also believe a tankless requires a minimum flow to activate it.

 

[p-Bar]

Thats a lot of money to be spending. I contemplated it when my water heater went out and decided to just put a 50 gallon unit in . That money will buy a lot of natural gas or propane. If you have kids at home you will never get em' out of the shower with a tankless. I am in So. Cal and will probably just go solar on the roof to help out my propane bill.

 

[p-Bar]

tankless water heaters need 3/4" gas line also, 110v for the igniter

 

[Bill Lins]

Doesn't sound like you'll live long enough for the tankless heater to pay for itself.

 

[GAmes]

How many water heaters of the same type you currently have can you buy for $2130? Two, three? multiply by 11years. Are you still going to be in that hose 22 or 33 years from now? Also, keep in mind that the tankless heater probably has a similar life span. Doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.

 

[fest3er]

Something is dreadfully wrong if you can't buy a brandy new 50 gal. gas water heater for under $600. Go to Lowes or Home Despot and buy one. And install it yourself.

But first ask yourself if your current heater is failing. Then ask yourself if today's money is worth more than tomorrow's, or if tomorrow's is worth more. Unless there is significant deflation, it's always better to wait before spending money. Of course, if needless spending is a left-coast penitence sort of thing, then spend, Spend, SPEND!

If money is an object and you don't need it, then don't buy it. If money is an object and you need it, then do it yourself. 'Tis a rare deal indeed that is worth spending money on when you don't need to. (A pristine, low-mileage, '98 12V quad-cab 4x4 for $3000 would be worth the money. )

Check with your neighbors and plumbing professionals (plumbers, sales, etc. ) and ask about the water in your area. Some water will eat through a new tank/heater in a few short years. Other water won't affect the same tank for 30 years or more. If your tank's been in for 11 years and you've had no trouble with it, you're probably good to go another 5-10 years. You don't need to do anything until your gas bill goes way up for no apparent reason or the tank starts leaking.

 

[PMould]

do you have city or well water? well water, lots of minerals in it. 11yrs use is good,I would inspect the ANODES. replace them if needed. this will extend the tank life. also flush the tank annually, might last 11 years more little maint. goes a long way. my 2 cents. good luck.

 

[hammersley]

Thanks for all the

advice - I'm thinking the same way..... I don't see where that is $$$ well spent unless one has an unlimited supply... ...

 

[Hoefler]

Is your AO Smith a power vent and has 3" plastic flue pipe?? If so, it is already the most efficient ( 96% )tank type water heater on the market yet today. The tank less requires a 3" stainless steel flue pipe. It will send at least 20% of the heat up the flue. The supposing advantage of the tank less, is that it won't be heating the water when not in use. A well insulated tank heater will not cycle when there is no water usage. I have an AO Smith FPD 50 power vent water heater, I never run out of hot water. I can have the washer and dish washer going, and still take a shower and never run out of hot water. I have gas heat as well and have the grill hooked up too. I am on propane, and use less than 800 gallons a year. At a $1. 00 a gallon, it averages out to $66. 67 a month. Like said above, if your water heater is working satisfactory, by replacing it now, you will never recover the savings before the new unit fails.

 

[WDaniels]

"ON DEMAND" hot water heaters are very popular in the outlaying parts of Alaska. There's lots of hot water but everyone to a "T" says that they are WAY, more expensive to run than regular hot water heaters. I have two guys I work with that have them in their cabins out in the bush and both are considering changing back because of how much gas they use. Both guys have to fly their propane into their cabins so usage is a real big deal with them.

Also the largest gas usage for gas hot water heaters is the pilot light by far. They now have electronic ignition hot waters that eliminate the pilot light. You might consider looking into one of those. Also wrapping your hot water heater with insulation made for your size heater. Even if it is inside. That saves a tremendous amount of gas also. Just a couple of thoughts.

WD

 

[p-Bar]

"ON DEMAND" hot water heaters are very popular in the outlaying parts of Alaska. There's lots of hot water but everyone to a "T" says that they are WAY, more expensive to run than regular hot water heaters. I have two guys I work with that have them in their cabins out in the bush and both are considering changing back because of how much gas they use. Both guys have to fly their propane into their cabins so usage is a real big deal with them.

Also the largest gas usage for gas hot water heaters is the pilot light by far. They now have electronic ignition hot waters that eliminate the pilot light. You might consider looking into one of those. Also wrapping your hot water heater with insulation made for your size heater. Even if it is inside. That saves a tremendous amount of gas also. Just a couple of thoughts.

WD

So the real truth comes out by the consumer

 

[hammersley]

That is good to know

"ON DEMAND" hot water heaters are very popular in the outlaying parts of Alaska. There's lots of hot water but everyone to a "T" says that they are WAY, more expensive to run than regular hot water heaters. I have two guys I work with that have them in their cabins out in the bush and both are considering changing back because of how much gas they use. Both guys have to fly their propane into their cabins so usage is a real big deal with them.

Also the largest gas usage for gas hot water heaters is the pilot light by far. They now have electronic ignition hot waters that eliminate the pilot light. You might consider looking into one of those. Also wrapping your hot water heater with insulation made for your size heater. Even if it is inside. That saves a tremendous amount of gas also. Just a couple of thoughts.

WD

I wasn't aware of that... ... . The hot water heater does have an electronic ignitor.....

 

[TboneMan]

I have a Rinnai tankless HW heater.



1) IT DID NOT COST NEARLY THAT MUCH!!! Try $1800 installed!

2) It is saving me 0. 5 gallons of propane a day (based on propane usage figures pre and post installation) or about a savings of $1. 15-$1. 30/day.

3) Yes, you need a 110v outlet near by. My old HW heater required a exhaust fan so, I had power in the area.

4) If you have long pipe runs from the heater to the faucet you'll have to wait a bit for the hot water to arrive. If you are on public water, your usage may go up a little.

5) You'll get what's known a cold water "sandwich". Example, if two people take showers consecutively in the same tub. The second person will experience hot water instantly (that remaining in the pipes), then a brief "cool" period (the second of two it take for the heater to fire up and heat the water), then hot again.



Tankless hot water heaters are not for everyone (at least until the gov. says you have to have them). They do save money. Mine cost me about $500 more than it would have cost to put a conventional power vented tank style HW heater. I've already saved that in propane since it was installed (5/08).