Hensley Arrow advanced towing system

[GAmes]

Yup, we've all seen u-hauls in the ditch or upside down. Even u-haul knows a sway gimmick won't prevent sway when a some dumb-*** loads the trailer incorrectly.

 

[SnoKing]

I hope most are taking posts by a couple people here with a gain of salt! Controlling sway in a bumper pull setup is an important issue that some are trying to down play. Many things with both the TV and trailer do add up to cause the issue, but the final result is the same if a trailer gets away from you. I have never seen a RAM on it's side with a bumper pull trailer, I have however seen several SUVs that way.

SNOKING

 

[GAmes]

I'm not saying preventing sway (not sure how you would control it, by definition it is uncontrollable) isn't important. I'm saying that the hype for sway devices has duped a lot of people into complacency. Proper maintenance and proper loading prevents sway. I almost saw a CTD on it's side, and it happened to a TDR member. A few winters ago I was southbound on I15 between Idaho Falls and Pocatello, ID. A 2500 pulling a flatbed went by me in the left lane. I was doing about 60, so I'd guess he was between 65 and 70. Just as the trailer went by me I was showered by a momentary white out of snow. The trailer immediately began to oscillate wildly from side to side and for a minute I thought there was going to be a disaster. The driver was able to reduce his speed enough to guide his rig into a rest area, and I followed since I had planned to stop there anyway. When I came out of the bathroom he was scooping snow off the trailer by hand. What was left was about 2 ft high, and all of it was aft of the axles. What had happened was the trailer was piled with snow when he left his house and was loaded evenly from front to back. When he passed me the front portion of the snow had blown off, but the rear portion remained. The sudden lifting of weight from his hitch sent the trailer into swaying. I loaned him the snow shovel I always carry in the winter and we chatted a bit about the TDR because he saw my milestone plate on the toolbox. Perhaps he is still a member, sees this thread, and will comment on the pucker factor that day. :-laf

 

[Bill Stockard]

Proper maintenance and proper loading prevents sway.

Yes, proper loading is key. Something I learned early in my "trailer towing" experiences in the 1960s towing a tandem axle enclosed U-Haul trailer moving my sister from El Paso, TX to Dallas. When loading the trailer with my sister's belongings, I thought I should balance the load evenly front to the rear. After about 150 miles of trailer sway limiting my speed to under 50-mph, I stopped, unloaded the trailer, and reloaded it with the heavier stuff in the front of the axles. After reloading, I could drive the speed limit with no trailer sway at all.

Bill

 

[GAmes]

....... your not gonna change my mind and i'm not gonna change yours...........

I got to thinking about that, and I take offense. If you, or anyone, can give me any evidence that a "sway control device" of any kind will prevent sway or make towing safer, I'm all ears.

Out in the pile of steel I will someday take to a scrap metal buyer are two friction sway assemblies. I once was naive enough to buy one and install it on my boat trailer when I first started double towing behind my 5er. A friend of mine double towed his boat, and told me it was a necessary piece of hardware. I dutifully installed it every time I hitched the boat trailer to the camper. Flash forward to pulling a different friends boat, no sway bar. As you should know, it didn't sway, and neither did my boat when I never installed it again. The second one came with the WDH I use for work. It has never been installed on anything. I could probably sell them for a few bucks at a yard sale, but my conscience won't let me. IMO I'd just be selling kool-aid. If you can provide any proof to the contrary, I'll sell them.

 

[AH64ID]

but who cares, i've lost interest, your not gonna change my mind and i'm not gonna change yours, Good luck and God Bless, Monte

There in lies the problem. No one is willing to learn and understand the issue we are discussing. I am talking about really understanding it and not just reading the website for a sway-control hitch.

I have never seen someone who fully understand what is going on decide to become an anti-sway device advocate, but I have seen it go the other way plenty of times. There is a reason for that. Fully understanding the physics behind it goes a long ways in understanding what is going on with the trailer.

Why don't 5ers have sway issues? Is it the location of attachment or is it the fact that they have a much larger %age of their weight on the pin and therefor are better balanced? It is possible to get bumper pull sway on a 5er/GN trailer but much harder as their design makes it very difficult to reduce the pin weight enough.

Have you ever towed a traditional trailer with much more than 15% tongue weight? If you haven't try it sometime, if the TV can handle the TW, and you may be surprised at just how much more stable it is than the same trailer at 10% TW.

 

[mfurrh55]

AH, i've hauled hay for 3 years i hauled 19k of hay on 5ooolb. trlr 1200 miles one way,twice a month with my 1 ton , i used a gooseneck trailer though, there's a big difference in bumper tow and gooseneck or 5th wheel though, i would rather pull either than a bumper pull, Also i weighed around 80k for 5 yrs. in the semi, GAmes you can be offended all you like that's your perogative too, Have a nice day

 

[GAmes]

GAmes you can be offended all you like that's your perogative too, Have a nice day

Just pointing out that my mind isn't closed like a steel trap, so being accused of that is offensive. I'm willing to learn and will man up if I am proved to be wrong.

 

[SnoKing]

A little Sunday reading on the subject!

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28537614.cfm

 

[mfurrh55]

Just pointing out that my mind isn't closed like a steel trap, so being accused of that is offensive. I'm willing to learn and will man up if I am proved to be wrong.

No problem, just pulling your chain, I get it too, Take care,Monte, Got to pull one of those bumper pulls down to Austin this morning after church for the floods and by the way i don't use a sway system on it, it's loaded heavier in the front so there isn't any sway, These disasters just don't let up, keeps me busy,Monte

 

[GAmes]

No problem, just pulling your chain, I get it too, Take care,Monte, Got to pull one of those bumper pulls down to Austin this morning after church for the floods and by the way i don't use a sway system on it, it's loaded heavier in the front so there isn't any sway, These disasters just don't let up, keeps me busy,Monte

You did a very good job.:-laf I had a little high water damage in my shop yesterday, but nothing that was expensive. Gonna try to bribe the grandsons to dig better drainage around it.

 

[Alphonse]

Understanding sway

5th wheel trailers connect to the vehicle over the rear axle. A pivot point projection hitch (aka ProPride or Hensley) for a "tag along" accomplish something similar through the kinematics of the hitch. Its linkages project the pivot point forward to the rear axle. This is not marketing jive, just plain geometry and engineering.

If you are really interested in understanding the mechanics of sway, study this Australian website with the subject of vehicle dynamics while pulling trailers.
http://caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/caravan-and-tow-vehicle-dynamics/

If that makes you want to dive deeper, buy or rent, and read "Fundamentals of Vehicle Dynamics", Thomas D. Gillespie, Society of Automotive Engineers, 1992

 

[GAmes]

I don't have any trouble understanding the mechanics of sway, and I understand the difference in a Hensely type hitch over a ball hitch. Your link only serves to reinforce my beliefs. Not one mention of a sway control gimmick. I hope you are not of the belief that a trailer attached to a Hensely type hitch, a 5th wheel RV or a gooseneck cargo trailer is immune to sway. It would almost have to be deliberate, to be sure, but certainly possible. Thanks for the read.

 

[Alphonse]

. ... Thanks for the read.

You're welcome.

 

[tommyturbo]

Jeepthing. After gleaning over the extensive TDR reply posts you got, I feel that I can actually make a suggestion from my own
personal experience. Looks like the Hensley Arrow system and similar designs would be the ultimate "band-aid" fix for an extremely misbehaving
trailer. I'm glad those product designs are available when needed. I was a newbie when buying our first TT and at the time, my mind set was
that all you do is hook up directly on the ball and go. Why not. Six seasons of that were pretty much o.k. with a little wiggle from wind gusts
and passing semi's. I thought that was normal to expect. Not a real biggie. It wasn't until our next trailer that panic set in. Towing back
from the dealer, steering the truck was a nightmare. The local Cal RV service suggested the Equal-I-zer hitch and I was all ears at that point.
I was desperate for any trailer control because we had plans already for a trip and time was running out. WAH LAH! That little hitch sure cured
the sway problem pronto. It educated my mind knowing a "band-aid fix" could make a difference between night and day. Learning from the
TDR members that the trailer could have a host of issues and loading mistakes going on but after installing the WD and sway control "gimmick",
I could care less about spending time and money trying to find and fix the trailer issues. We now just load the trailer, hitch up and go without
any regard to balance. Towing the TT is so much more relaxed and less stressful. Knowing this now I bet the "band-aid" would have smoothed
out our first TT better. If you test tow the TT on the ball first and find the the handling is not all well, then I suggest that whichever brand control hitch
you choose that it has both WD and sway control features. Also ease of set up and ground clearance for angled driveways and such.
Another suggestion is if you find the truck level too low like with the known 3rd Gen squat that mine has, try the Timbren SES system.
That will keep the truck back end from sagging even without WD. The Timbrens are easy on and easy off and only take 10 min.
Simple and low priced compared to air bags which are wonderful too. If you find the ride too harsh when empty you can switch them out again.
Maybe this experience could help the next newbie figure out what to do with an unruly handling TT.
Tom

 

[SnoKing]

tommyturbo brings a little sanity to a out of control thread!!!

SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

Trailer sway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INyiMA3hfto&feature=youtu.be

Blow over, looks like he was just on a ball:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwOqARlw1EI

 

[GAmes]

Your point?

 

[SnoKing]

Your point?

Stuff happens and there is a river in Egypt named the De-Nile! And I would bet that neither of these would have gone over with a Hensley Arrow advanced towing system! Snoking

 

[GAmes]

So is it your belief that a tail heavy TT wouldn't sway and another trailer wouldn't be blown over by the wind if a sway gimmick device of some kind was employed? Do you have any evidence that the TT in the first video didn't have one in the first place? Are you advocating them for big trucks too? :-laf

https://youtu.be/aQ4rbd0Zfwg