Hey 4X4 Owners Dana 60 Axle Diconnect Delete! Check it out!

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In The October Issue of Petersens 4wheel & Offroad, There is an Artical of a "KIT" offered by Dynatrac to Replace the CAD unit with a one piece axle and install Locking Hubs With REAL hub Bearings!. This "Kit" would make the Dodge Ram a Real 4x4 again. The Nice thing about this "Kit" is that you keep your original Axle Housing!. I am Calling Dynatrac on Monday to find out more!I am Also going to ask them about a Real Disc brake "Kit" for the Dana 70 and 80.

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1998. 5,2500,ISB,Auto,CC,4x4,4. 10's,Suregrip,White Sport,Isspro Boost & Pyro,275hp Injectors,VA,PS Boost Module,BD Pressure Lock,16x8 Eagles,295 BFG's,2. 5" Skyjacker Lift,Stockland Seibring Shell.
26ft Weekend Warrior.
1973 R/S Z28 Camaro.
1989 Jeep Cherokee.
427ci 585hp L88 Crate Motor, Still in the Crate!.

 

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Very interesting please keep us informed on what you find out. Thanks Pete

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99'3500,quad cab,4X4,a/t
3:54,all the right packages!PROPER VALVEMENT

 

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Saw the article Saturday,but didn't have time to read it. It looks like the average Joe could do the install except for the machining of the knuckle. Like I said, I didn't have time to read it. What's up with the machining part? <font color=blue>

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'99 2500HD Quad Cab 4x4, Intense Blue Pearlcoat, Fully loaded w/Agate leather interior, 5-speed, 4. 10 Limited Slip, Skyjacker Leveling kit, Heckethorn Nitro 9000 shocks w/dual End to End steering stabilizers, 35x12. 50x16. 5 BFG/AT KO's on 9. 75x16. 5 Eagle 589 Aluminum Wheels, 9004 Cool Blue's, Silencer Ring removed, Fog Lights relay pulled, No muffler, No resonator, 4" straight pipe, Northwest Customs Stainless Steel Rocker Panels, Steel Horse Stainless Steel Nerf Bars, K&N Filter,CUSTOM POWEREDGE W/HOT#3 PROGRAM, Grover Air-Horns.

 

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I would like to 1st on a group purchase of this "Kit".

 

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Wowzy, I just read the article, and I don't believe that there is any machining necessary. There is a picture showing why you can't just put in a standard one-piece axleshaft. The housing is not machined for a seal next to the differential carrier. The Dynatrac kit uses a axle with a raised portion to seal where the stock seal is located, by the vacuum disconnect. No machining necessary. #ad
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'98 4x4 12V QCab Auto (ready to BOMB)

 

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Anyone know if it keeps antilock brakes?

 

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Well Guys, I called Dynatrac and ask about the price of this "Kit". The sales guy gave me one price of $2,595. 00. I dont know if that is for stage 1,2 or 3. But it seems way too high. I remember talking to them about 5 yrs ago about getting a Dana 60 rear made for my 78 Jimmy 4x4. they said it was going to be around $1,500. 00. But that was for a complete rear end, Not just the Axles,Hubs, Hub Bearings and Spindles. It just seem too damn high for me. being that the Jeep Dana 30 conversion goes for around $700. 00 I just cant beleve that a Dana 60 35 spline axle goes for $1,800. 00!... Nah I think i will pass on this one. Just because I spent $32k on a truck doesnt mean I have to get Soaked. Oh well.

P. S. The hub Bearings and Locking Hubs have to be "off the shelf" stuff.
Doug.

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1998. 5,2500,ISB,Auto,CC,4x4,4. 10's,Suregrip,White Sport,Isspro Boost & Pyro,275hp Injectors,VA,PS Boost Module,BD Pressure Lock,16x8 Eagles,295 BFG's,2. 5" Skyjacker Lift,Stockland Seibring Shell.

 

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I posted this a couple of days ago in response to a question on the 12V forum. (The price you were quoted was for stage 2)

The Web site is http://www.dynatrac.com

I just got off the phone with Dynatrac. The gentleman that I spoke with told me that this system has been out for some time but had not been advertised, so there may be units in the field that have been tested.

There are indeed three stages:

Stage 1- Requires no diff work and uses the stock shafts. The two shafts are mated with a "coupler" to replace the disconnect device.

Stage 2 - The inner shaft is replaced with a 1. 5" 35 spline shaft (as in Dana 70). This requires diff work like changing side gears.

Stage 3 - Includes Stage 2 plus a 35 spline outer shaft.

Prices run roughly between $1600 - 3200 depending on the stage.

Hope that helps.

Bob

 

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I noticed where it says that the inner and outer axle shafts in the Dana 60 for our trucks and the Dana 60 that's in the Super duty are 1. 310" in diameter and that's close to being Dana 44 material.

I thought that all Dana 60 front diffs were 1 5/16"? I don't have a calc. in front of me but doesn't 1. 310" = 1 5/16"?

Just a thought,but it would be a better idea to purchase a Dana 60 w/High pinion and 35 splined axles from Dynatrac and do a complete swap. While youre under there,you could do a Coil to Leaf spring conversion and probably get the Dana 60 cheaper if all they had to do is determine where to weld the spring perches for the Leafs according to our frame width.

I've always prefered Leafs over Coils. <font size=-2>



[This message has been edited by WOWZY (edited 09-01-2000). ]

 

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I looked at the article again and the left half of the 2 piece axle that connects to your U-Joint is larger than the inner half.

What's confusing to me is that they say that the two piece shaft is 1. 625" diameter,but a few sentences before that they said that the '94 and up Dodge Dana 60 and the '99 and up Ford Super Duty Dana 60 use 30 spline,1. 31" inner and outer axle shafts.

Ok,what is the diameter of the shaft on the drivers side of the Hogshead?

This makes a total Dana 60 replacement look even more inviting,especially with knowing that ridiculous price for the conversion kit.

 

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Why on earth would you convert from the coil spring front end to a leaf spring front end? Don't give me the crap about the getting rid of the track bar - SuperDuty's have leaf springs & a track bar, Jeep Wranglers have leafs & a track bar. The coils ride better, handle better and divorce the locating of the axle from the springing of the axle. If leaf springs are so great then why is the Superduty the only pickup left using them? Why does Warn make a coil over conversion for leaf sping equiped jeeps?

Brian

 

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About the leaf springs: They are a stronger setup. Leaf springs do not need a track bar to provide left/right stability of the axle so what might look like a track bar is perhaps the steering linkage.

Up to '97 Ford made three distinct set-ups for the F series. The 150 got coil springs/trailing arms (Twin I beam) an a "track bar". The 250 got leaf springs with the pivoting stamped steel axle housing (they should not have used this with the Diesel option) and the 350 got the "good stuff" leaf springs and solid Dana 60 front axle.

So as the rigs got heavier duty the coil springs and funky stuff went away.

In '99 the Super Duty trucks get the good leaf spring set-up and the light duty series gets the other stuff. Ford did what Dodge should have done: Go ahead and offer the coil springs, etc. so that people who complain about their truck riding like a truck will be happier but also allow an option for maximum service (Super Duty)-Leaf springs/solid axle.

Since Dodge doesn't offer the combo the sales points are "it rides better" and "more axle articulation". But strong is not one of them.



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'93 W350 Club Cab, Bright White, 5 sp. , 130K, Factory Options: LE, 4. 10 Limited Slip, 7600 lb. rear springs, tachometer, front stabilizer bar. Mods: Banks stinger plus, Linex bedliner, 25,000 lb gooseneck ball, 10,000 lb receiver, Tekonsha brake controller, POWER WAGON injectors-WAY faster than stock!.

 

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Who said that I was wanting to elliminate the track bar?? #ad


The main reason that I prefer the leaf springs is because of it's simplicity and because coil sprung vehicles have more trouble with front end allignments. I'm sure that after mine gets a few years on it,it will be a nightmare to have a correct allignment done.

If I wanted it to ride like a Caddy,I would've bought a Caddy. I like it better since I stiffened the ride with the leveling coils up front.

With Leafs you do have to use some sort of anti-sway bar when you start lifting a truck with considerable positive spring arch, but in stock suspension configs, the leafs are pretty much level with a small degree of negative arch and there is very little sway. But there should always be some sort of track bar to minimize wear on the spring eye bushings.

I've had no problems with my front diff. so far, but when I do, I should have all the parts that I need for the swap (only 2 sets of leaf brackets,Leaf springs and High-Pinion HD Dana 60 from Dynatrac. ) and the suspension and the "Weird 60" will be sitting behind the shop.

Most people wouldn't opt to the extreme of changing the suspension and I respect that,since I know most are just happy driving their rig until something breaks or they start wearing their tires out prematurely and stand there scratching their heads because they have no idea why it happened.

I'm one of the few that's not afraid of making my truck better and stronger. A little PM goes a long way.

Anyway, I think that swapping for a much better Dana 60 is the smart way to go if you're already gonna spend $3000 on an over priced kit.

DC designed the truck. God designed the CUMMINS!

 

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There are two very good reasons to use a leaf springs - they're cheap & they're easy. You get axle locating members & the spring in one component. Cheaper to buy, easier to package & cheaper/easier to maintain - less wear points/bushings. Now I'm not saying that DC did a perfect job with the 5 link front suspension on our trucks - there are definately some shortcomings. Namely the track bar bushing. However, the coil spring/multi-link, solid axle system has far more advantages than the standard leaf spring configuration of one fixed mount & one articulated mount. Of course, you can also have a multi link/leaf spring, solid axle system (shackles at each end of the leaf) that works pretty darn well - look at the front end of Rod Hall's Class 4 Dodge from the late 80's.

Mark93 - please explain why a leaf spring set up is stronger. I'm not following your logic. If leaf springs are so wonderful then why do the high end semis run air bag/locating arm suspensions? A leaf spring set up doesn't necessarily require the use of a track bar because the springs themselves are so stiff laterally that they positively locate the axle. When Jeep went to the Wrangler & Ford went to the SuperDuty they utilized more compliant springs/bushings - NOT necessarily lower spring rates - that required the use of the track bar to locate the axle. They did this to improve the ride/articulation - it certainly wasn't to save money. Try driving a stock Wrangler or SuperDuty w/o the track bar and tell me it doesn't wander as much, if not more, than a 2nd genderation Dodge.

I won't even try to defend the Twin Ibeam/traction beam front ends - there is no defense for the design. It has lots of vertical wheel travel potential at the expens e of the ability to go around a corner. Ever seen a Class 8 I beam front end race truck try to negotiate a 90 degree turn? Most look they're about to roll over and play dead.

Wowzy - I think you have the function of the sway bar/anti-roll bar and the track bar confused. The sway bar does not locate the axle, it reduces body roll during cornering. There is nothing in its mounting scheme that can take a lateral load. Both ends are mounted to the axle via the links & the bar just rotates in the bushings mounted on the frame. It is really just a torsion bar. The track bar is designed to prevent the lateral shifting of the axle under the frame - one end is mounted to the axle & the other is mounted to the frame. If one set of the axle control arms were mounted at an angle - think wishbone - then you don't need a separate track bar, the wishbone handlest the lateral loads. Typically, heavily arched springs don't flex enough to have cause body roll - the spring rate is just too high - and require the use of a sway bar.

Not sure I agree with you about the alignment problems on a coil sprung front end. Provided the bushings were designed/spec'd properly (ok, this might be a stretch considering we're talking about DC)& maintained properly it shouldn't really be a problem. Caster you get by the eccentrics in the lower control arm. On a leaf spring/solid axle you get the pleasure of using tapered shims at the spring pads. Otherwise, you've got the same adjustments because it's solid axle - camber/caster via ball joint eccentrics, camber via shim plates between the spindle & knuckle - wait, we don't have spindles, do the shims work with our set up? - and toe in/out.

Oh yeah, can I have your stock front axle when you replace it with the new set up?

Brian

 

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Ok, I'll explain it in more depth so you don't take up any more server space with explaining the correct definition of my misused word "Sway". Ok with you professor?

My use of the word swaybar takes me back to '73-'87 GM 4x4 trucks,where they used a simple but effective way of controlling body roll and lateral axle movement. It was called a "Sway bar" to simplify the GM parts list description. The Sway bar is U-shaped and connected from the frame to the U-bolt mounting plates on top of the Leaf springs. This design should've been used in all Leaf sprung trucks in my opinion because of it's simplicity.

This design most certainly will be used in my axle swap. It's a sway bar and track bar all in one.

As far as the leafs vs coils go, the coils will loose there strength and sag because of the twisting action of the round stock that the coil is made of when the coil is compressed and relaxed. The Leafs will do the same,but it takes alot longer because the Leaf has a more natural travel and any twisting is taken up by the spring-eye bushings. As far as the articulation goes,yes the coils will out perform the leafs. But we're not driving future rock buggies here. I think that's what jeeps are made for. I cringe to think that someone would actually self-inflict bodily harm on their truck and bash their floor pan in,High Centered on a boulder.

There are very few Allignment Techs. out there who know how to correctly allign our trucks. Getting rid of the multiple links that this truck has just to hold the front axle in place will be getting rid of future worn out parts to replace.

As far as the old 60 goes,sure I would be glad to let you have it. Anyone smart enough to put one of these back in after "Grenading" the first one,deserves it.

With me it's "Once Bitten,Twice Shy"

 

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The Professor here.

Wowzy, the bar you describe on the GMs is a sway bar. IT IS NOT DESIGNED AS A TRACK BAR - IT DOES NOT TAKE LATERAL LOAD BY DESIGN. It will take 'some' lateral load if the frame mounted bushings are over tightened - that's the only way it will transfer load to the frame. Again, it is not designed to function as a track bar.

Who said anything about putting the Dana 60 back in the truck?

I apologize for taking up too much server space. I guess if I had agreed with you about the leaf spring swap and been blasting DC you would have responded 'right on'.

The Professor

 

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Don't give me that crap about the sway bar helping the lateral movement "some". I've owned quite a few Chevy 4x4's and have always kept the swaybar hooked up except in one case where I was trying to trek diagonally up a slick hill side. I kept sliding down the hill sideways into some stacked logs. I unhooked the sway bar as some idiot that was with us suggested, and tried it again. This time I slid into the logs as I did before except I thought that the axle had ripped itself from my truck. Luckily it didn't,but it did bend both sets of stock shackels on the front springs and had to be towed home and then found out later that I had sheared the center spring pin on the left spring. That my friend came from lateral movement of the axle that hadn't done it before I unhooked the sway bar. I suggest you preach this to a Ford guy,not to someone that's off-roaded as many GM's as I have.

It's ok to be afraid of change. I used to be until I found it was so easy to improve the engineering mistakes of Auto Manufacturers. Just about all the trucks made now have some sort of wussy-soft suspension made with "Conservative-Duty" parts. I'll gladly trade a wussy ride for peace of mind no matter how much you think it's wrong for me to do it.

Be happy with your truck and I'll be happier with mine many more years down the road.

PS About my gift 60,I surely didn't think you'd be bettering any other vehicle with it because that would be considered "change" from OEM,which I sense that you're afraid of. I don't recall seeing your sig. Does it contain more than 2 lines? <font size=-2>



[This message has been edited by WOWZY (edited 09-08-2000). ]

 

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WOWZY,
Terribly sorry that you consider my experience crap - I guess working as a design engineer for a company that designs SCORE Trophy Trucks doesn't account for much... .

For your front axle to shift far enough to bend stock shackles & shock shafts and shear the center pin after disconnecting the sway bar - oops, I mean track bar - you must have one flexible suspension. Do you run a track bar in the rear to prevent the rear axle from shifting sideways?

You haven't seen my signature because I don't use one. I don't feel the need to tell everybody about the velour tuck & roll dash cover and dingle balls hanging from the headliner. I'd rather waste the server space with discussion like this one than with 15 line signatures that tell the world I've 'lost' my muffler & silencer ring and replaced my head light bulbs.

I've noticed that you've stopped using your 5 line signature. Why?

I used to drive a '96 2500 CC 4wd 5spd. Now I drive a '0 2500 QC 4wd 6 spd. I use my truck to tow/haul my other toys. If I needed to offroad in something as big as the Dodge, I'd buy a Hummer or an Unimog.

With your vast experience wheeling GMs can you offer any advice on how to set up my CJ-7? So far I've only been able to convert it to a 4spd stick (T-18), install Currie 9" axles front & rear, install a 4" spring lift, 1. 5" body lift that I made myself, install Beard Super Seats on custom brackets, stainless brake lines, late model hardtop on an early model tub (required welding in the door posts) and do the standard engine performance hop ups. I was thinking about going with the Warn XCL suspension (coilovers & control arms) but maybe I should stick with the leaf springs since they're so much stronger & I don't want to wear out tires because I can't align it. I guess those guys at Warn, Pro-Comp, Tomken Machine etc don't know what they're doing. What are they thinking making systems to convert a leaf spring Jeep to coil over? They should be working on kits to convert the coil over TJs to leaf springs.

Darn it, there I go again - wasting service space with my 'in depth' responses.

Oh, God who created Cummins, Forgive me please,

Brian

[This message has been edited by Brian Meadows (edited 09-08-2000). ]

 

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Well the bottom line is that whether you like it or not,I'm gonna do the swap as I feel neccessary to the truck that i paid for with my own money. End of discussion. <font color=blue>
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'99 2500HD Quad Cab 4x4, Intense Blue Pearlcoat, Fully loaded w/Agate leather interior, 5-speed, 4. 10 Limited Slip, Skyjacker Leveling kit, Heckethorn Nitro 9000 shocks w/dual End to End steering stabilizers, 35x12. 50x16. 5 BFG/AT KO's on 9. 75x16. 5 Eagle 589 Aluminum Wheels, 9004 Cool Blue's, Silencer Ring removed, Fog Lights relay pulled, No muffler, No resonator, 4" straight pipe, Northwest Customs Stainless Steel Rocker Panels, Steel Horse Stainless Steel Nerf Bars, K&N Filter,CUSTOM POWEREDGE W/HOT#3 PROGRAM, GROVER AIR HORNS, AUTOMETER ULTRA-LITE GAUGES.

[This message has been edited by WOWZY (edited 09-10-2000). ]