High Cu in oil analysis

[mdlowry]

I just got the results for my most recent oil analysis back. Copper went from 21ppm on last analysis to 167! I am using Amsoil 15w40 HDD&M and I have 17K on the oil at the last sample. In the comments they speculate that it could be from oil cooler/lines. All other elements looked fine.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Oh boy. I hope that is not from the bearings. We need some expert opinions here for sure.

 

[illflem]

Cu can also come from bushings. Have you worked your truck harder or heated it up more than normal since the last test?

 

[mdlowry]

Originally posted by illflem
Cu can also come from bushings. Have you worked your truck harder or heated it up more than normal since the last test?

Nope. I haven't changed my driving. The only thing done to the truck was a bump(!) in the front bumper that just barely pushed it into the condenser (no AC now). I don't think that would have any affect on it though.

BTW, Oil analysers also says that "no corrective action required" "Oil is suitable for continued use"

Michael

 

[Don M]

Do you have an aftermarket oil cooler installed? I thought the factory oil cooler from cummins was in the side of the block? NO cooper in the factory one I thought.



Main and rod bearings have cooper in them though.





Don~

 

[John]

I experienced high CU at one oil analysis... just after replacing the oil sampling petcock in my Amsoil Dual Remote Bypass filter mounting block with my SPA oil temp sending unit. Just the (VERYcareful) removal of the brass fitting and replacement of the brass SPA sender was enough to greatly skew the oil analysis results. The following oil analysis was within >1% +/- of the norm. What surprised me is that I am EXTREMELY careful when working around any open system so contamination is never an issue. As careful as I was the oil analysis illustrated otherwise.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Oil does not normally flow through a drain point. so, if you were to us a wrench that had been used on something copper to open a drainplug or if your habds were dirty as you spin it off then you could have this problem.



for a problem like a petcock you could drain a qt or so then dump it back in the engine then get your sample. That way the oil thoroughly washes the exit port.



26 ppm on a small oil sample would not be something you could see if you gathered all of it out of the oil into a pile. it would probalbly be the size of a pin head. 160 woulndn't be visible either.



I wouldn't worry unless the next analysis was skewed.



I don't test much oil but I have done a bit of quantitative chemical analysis, and it doesn't take much at all to screw up readings on such small quantities.



FWIW

Mark

 

[Oil Man]

mdlowry,

What is your Lead and Tin ppm??? If you are not getting Led and Tin then it is not your bearings. You must have all 3 for it to be bearings. If it is only Copper then it came from the oil cooler.



Kevin

 

[stick]

mdlowry:

I have been seeing the exact same thing on my 97. I changed the cooler ( no help still going up). I just rebuilt the turbo thinking it might be the bushings, but have not got a sample back after rebuild.

Good luck



Stick

 

[Ted Constantine]

I had a huge jump in CU and Pb on my most recent analysis but I think it is a screwup on my part with sampling. I was out of the hose of the sampler and did a mid stream while draining to oil. I also, having only done one other oil change myself on this truck (first was at the dealer) had no idea how long it drains for. Long story, the sample might have been from to early in the drain and was flowing over the plug. I will only get worried if I get bad results next time. The only other difference is the addition of CPFF block adapter and a couple of fittings associated with it.



Where can I get hose for the samplers with out buying it from Amsoil?

 

[illflem]

Cheap n' easy oil sampler

Didn't even think about contamination, the Cu could even have come from your drain plug washer if that's where you took the test. To avoid contamination I take the sample from the 1/8" port on top of the stock oil filter housing. Buy a 1/8" valve and 4' of polyhose from the hardware, about $6. With your engine warmed up but shut off remove the plug on the filter and screw in the valve with hose. With the valve shut start your engine, you can then put the hose in your oil fill tube and run oil though for awhile to flush out contaminates. You will have very good control and can fill your test bottle without spilling a drop. When you're done shut the engine down hang the hose on the hood and open the valve so the oil drains back into your engine. The only oil you lose will be the sample.

 

[Pit Bull]

Is this oil analysis you guys do just for money savings? I guess I don't understand why you would not just use Rottella 15 w 40 (or other recommended oil) and change your oil at the recommended interval? I've read that if factory maintence plan is followed you might get 1,000,000 miles out of the engine. Or is there a big cost saving using the Amsoil oil and doing analysis? But isn't there potentially more risk in not following the recommended oil change interval (sounds like from this thread that you can't alway count on the test results, or don't understand them, this sounds potentially dangerous for the engine?)? Sorry for the questions, I'm a newbie and just trying to understand what the objective is with this extended drain interval and testing?

Thanks

Denny

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

The synthetic oils are by far better lubricants. If you were to fill a new engine with synthetic it could go upwards of 50k mi before breaking in if it ever really breaks in.



I run the synthetic for both longevity and environmental reasons. . I don't have the time or resources to dispose of 3gal of oil every time I change my oil properly(I still need to get rid of the oil I drained last week).



I changed it every 5k using rotella until last week when I installed the amsoil. I do not intend to change it more than every 30-40k from now on.



Think about it. if the average car gets an oil change 3 times a year (low mileage) you could reduce lubricant consumption by 50% just by using a bypass and only changing once a year and topping off at filter changes.



If you went to 30k mi before a drain you would cut consumption by 80+%(2-3 yr interval). There are engines w/200+k mi on the same oil and still showing no signs of significant internal wear. At that rate the synthetic is substantially cheaper and extremely environmentally friendly.



Don't get me wrong, I am not an environmental activist. I am lazy and would rather change a filter and drain an ounce or two of oil than crawl under the truck change the oil and then have to dispose of the waste when I got done. The environmental part is a bonus. . besides the Arabs get enough of our money already.



Sorry So Long,

Mark

 

[illflem]

Denny, an oil test is almost required if you run synthetic on a extended drain interval in order to determine if the oil is still good to go. In my opinion synthetic is only worth running if you use extended drains to pay for the higher priced oil. The tests add to the cost of running syn but in the long run you will still come out ahead. Even if you are running Rotella or Delo an oil test will alert you to any potential problems before they cause damage to your expensive Cummins engine. Good examples are fuel, anti-freeze or silicone( from a bad air filter) in the oil. With oil test you can also determine if your change interval is right. I was able to go from 5k to 7k between Delo changes after reading tests, that paid for the test in itself plus I'm able to monitor other potential problems as a side benefit.

 

[amsoilman]

MDLowery,

I would bet the copper in the oil analysis test came from the cooler. I had a customer of mine that had his (CU)Copper count go way up, much more than yours, and he had the dealer change it out. the reading was back down at the next sampling. He had been doing oil analysis on this engine for 4 years prior to the high reading of CU. As oilman stated, if the lead(Pb) and tin (Sn)levals were down it would not be from the bearings.





Wayne

 

[mdlowry]

Oil Man, tin and lead were normal.

Tin was unchanged at 1ppm.
Lead went from 5ppm on the previous sample to 4ppm.

I will be resampling sooneer than normal just in case this was only from contamination.