High performance Pump & Injectors

[Old Smoky]

What is the difference in the high performance VE pumps and injectors? I know that they flow more fuel, but how?



I have seen 230 hp pumps for sale. Are these pumps as reliable as a stock pump (not turned-up). Can a stock pump be realistically modified to meet these specs? What are the specs. ?



Power Wagon (Bosch) and Prince Of Darkness (Lucas) are a couple of popular injectors I have seen. I think the hp gains are slightly different, so the specs. must be a little different. What are the specs. ? Why choose one from the other?



I am a student at Lewis-Clark State College majoring in diesel technology, and have the opportunity to experiment with a stock pump and injectors. I would like to find the specs. so that the instructor and I can modify them for my pickup. Any information would be greatly appreciated.



Mike

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I'm just a virgin when it comes to this area but...

Pop-Off pressures are different. The Lucas have a 250 bar pop-off,

the 180 HP marine injectors are 240 bar (I think) and I've no idea what the PW's are.

Each will have more or less openings in the nozzle, the spray angle will vary, and the quality of atomizing changes with each as well. I think this barely scratches the surface of this topic and I for one would LUV to hear from Piers, PW, Joe D, and any other 'gurus' on this.

As far as pumps go, the VE-44 can be 'tuned' on the bench for real nice results but not as great a potential as the P7100 on the 2nd Gens.

Let er rip guys !!!



edit: I started with stock injectors, went to the 180 marine app. then just recently installed the POD's (Lucas) each upgrade showed a marked difference in performance. The POD's seem to be much more sensitive to fueling. I'm trying to resolve some blue smoke when cold, and warm at idle.

This smoke decreases with shift to Neutral but still there.



Regards, Bob

 

[Midnite]

The PODs have four holes in the tip, while PWs have five. I think stock has four, and I'm not sure about the marine 180s.



Part of the reason I bought my PWs was because I thought the 5 holes would result in better atomization of fuel, and hopefully make better milage than I could get with the PODs (I'm trying to go more for milage than all-out power in my truck).



Power Wagon posted in another thread awhile back about taking some 215 injectors from a 2nd gen 12 valve and modifying them for use in a 1st gen. He mentioned that these had six holes in the tip, but unfortunately resulted in slightly less power than the PW injectors. I would think that if you could get your hands on a set of injectors that flowed as much fuel as the PODs, but with six holes instead of four, that would be the way to go.



Mike

 

[Old Smoky]

I'm not sure what kind of injectors I can get my hands on, but i'm sure it will be a fair selection. They will probably be cores, not new. It will be interesting to test flow rates over stock. Maybe we could get 2nd gen injectors to flow the same as PODs. With more holes they would probably have better fuel atomization.

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Old Smoky

I'm not sure what kind of injectors I can get my hands on, but i'm sure it will be a fair selection. They will probably be cores, not new. It will be interesting to test flow rates over stock. Maybe we could get 2nd gen injectors to flow the same as PODs. With more holes they would probably have better fuel atomization.

I have not found any injector tips yet with 5 or 6 holes that flow as well as the POD injectors. The 2nd Gen engines all have that stout P7100 to push fuel through small holes, and that's how it achieves it's horsepower.



Of course, I don't work for the fuel injection shop anymore, so I can do no more original research.

 

[Old Smoky]

PowerWagon-



What do you recommend using? How would modify stock injectors for best performance and mileage? Working in a fuel injection shop you have got to have some good ideas.

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Old Smoky

PowerWagon-



What do you recommend using? How would modify stock injectors for best performance and mileage? Working in a fuel injection shop you have got to have some good ideas.

I don't believe in modifying the injectors themselves.



Opening pressures, hole sizes and shapes and all that are very carefully engineered. But, you can put a different nozzle from a similiar application in the holder, or other such changes, but that's not really "modifying" it, it's just building a different injector.

 

[GOODE11]

Does anyone know how many HP these 230 pumps actually give a bombed 1st gen?



thanks

 

[Old Smoky]

Power Wagon



What have you found works the best? Which nozzles and other components work well together?

 

[Power Wagon]

Well, pretty much everything tried has "worked well", as in, no symptoms of running bad, like happens with the 2nd gen engines, with rough idle, missing, etc.



It's just that you need to pick what you want for the purpose you have in mind. For maximum HP, you want to use the Lucas injectors... for a good boost, but little smoke, try the PW injectors... for good low-end grunt, go with the 12 CM housing. For ultimate horsepower, use the 16 CM housing combined with cranking the governor up a bit.



For towing, you might want to have a pump shop take your pump apart and tweak it a bit to give it more torque curve, for that good "low end punch" that works well towing with a manual.



In pretty much all instances, your truck will run better if you go with advancing the timing to 1. 35 to 1. 5 or even 1. 7, according to some who've tried it.



I'm not sure I precisely answered your question though...

 

[Old Smoky]

Thanks Power Wagon.

I am staying with the 16cm2 housing and advancing the timing to 1. 5 (or 15 degrees) next week.



How does one go about turning up the governer? Are the only benefits at high rpm? Any downside to this adjustment?



No money for POD's now. That is why I want to build my own injectors. I really need a better exhaust too. There is just no end.







Mike