Honda vs. Champion

[Tuesdak]

Cheap Deka 24m4 that came with the trailer and the factory converter.

View attachment 108007

This may be your frustration with the heater killing them quick. These are "starting" batteries with a ballpark Amp Hours of 50 each. Not rated to be deep cycled and doing so kills them quickly to where the power they can hold is quickly reduced.

Comparison to what I am running for 2 battries is 100 AH vs. 220AH.

Just going "deep cycle" for the next set should get you a couple days or more running the heater without charging. Beware the mixed "starting deep cycle" that do neither well.

 

[jgillott]

This may be your frustration with the heater killing them quick. These are "starting" batteries with a ballpark Amp Hours of 50 each. Not rated to be deep cycled and doing so kills them quickly to where the power they can hold is quickly reduced.

Comparison to what I am running for 2 battries is 100 AH vs. 220AH.

Just going "deep cycle" for the next set should get you a couple days or more running the heater without charging. Beware the mixed "starting deep cycle" that do neither well.

Certainly something that I am going to upgrade at some point. What is your opinion of going to 6v golf car batteries vs. good deep cycle 12v?

 

[KATOOM]

Certainly something that I am going to upgrade at some point. What is your opinion of going to 6v golf car batteries vs. good deep cycle 12v?

Two 6 volts will outlast and out perform two 12 volt deep cycle.

 

[LandShark]

The 'starting battery' you have should be switched to deep cycle batteries at some point. Two 6v golf cart batteries are what many of us use and will easily give you plenty of power for heat even at temps below 20 degrees. I had a set of golf cart batteries in my 12' Elkhorn slide-in camper for over 10 years and it was the best upgrade I ever did. Prior to the upgrade, the heater would run out of power at 3am when it was below 20 outside. After the golf cart battery switch my I could go 2 nights without charging (wife likes it WARM).

I have the golf cart batteries in my 5th wheel now and can keep it warm for a full night plus have on plenty of lights and run the sat tv all evening.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Honda - a 2000 will NOT be able to run your A/C even with a soft start unit - it isn't just the ability to start it, it is the ability to not overheat the generator since most RV A/C units take more tha 13.3A to run - which is the max RATED for the 2000 Honda. Now the newer 2200 most likely will work - you need to measure the AMPs of your unit while it is running - not just initially, but after say 30 min. to make sure it is at or less than 15A (rated load).

Honda - the ONLY unit that rates their "max" run for up to 30 minutes. ALL others are only allowed to be for a few seconds above the "rated" output. If you find otherwise, please let me know. I even called Yamaha and they confirmed for their inverter units.

Champion - Find a service manual for it - if you find it, please share with me - I've never found one. I called the company and they don't exist. I've stopped at "authorized repair" shops and they don't have any. The ones I'm familiar with are noisier than the Honda. A friend bought 2 of the inverter style and they were blowing black smoke out of the box (too rich).

Honda - easy to find parts AND a true service manual. Need more advice/help - check out:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Honda_EU2000_Generators/info
Of course some of it is your typical INTERNET help - useless, but there is also a guy "Robert" who is a HONDA EMPLOYEE who answers questions there.

I had 2 Honda EU2000 gensets, made my own parallel box and used them dry camping. The box will measure the output of each generator so I would not overload either of them. When the larger cheap house generator went BANG I sold 1 of the EU2000 and bought a EU6500 to take camping or for the house. I love both!!!

Remember, just because a generator is powering a load doesn't mean that it will run that load long term.

Also, please allow your generator a cool down period - just like your diesel - after it has had a load on it or you can melt your windings (I know folks who have done that).

There are many other reasons to go Honda and stay away from the others. I'll be glad to answer questions. I did HOURS of research before I bought my first Honda.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Regarding noise levels - make sure you compare the same way. There isn't an industry standard on how to measure other than the dB scale. So, at what distance? Which way was the exhaust facing?, etc.

Also to the ear, or your ear, a specific frequency may be more noticeable so take that into consideration

 

[Tuesdak]

Certainly something that I am going to upgrade at some point. What is your opinion of going to 6v golf car batteries vs. good deep cycle 12v?

Other than fit issues its a cake walk to find "true" deep cycle 6 volt batteries rather than the 12v mixed starting/deep cycle stuff. The 6v Trojan T105's are around $110 at golf cart shops. For this reason alone I would recommend the 6 volt. Example price: https://www.batterycenteraz.com/

Fit issues may be just a new battery box. As you see I had to get hardcore with the grinder and more out to make mine fit. Measure twice esp. as you have the small group 24's.

 

[jgillott]

Thanks everyone for your help. This has turned in to a very good thread.

I'm going to dive in to this project as soon as we get back from vacation.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Something else I thought of. When dry camping and you want to run the A/C and you have a smaller generator, make sure to force the fridge to propane, and turn off the converter - that will help start the A/C. You might be able to turn the converter/charger back on afterwards - if you have enough reserve power on the A/C.

Oh, and make sure your mother-in-law (partial dementia) doesn't try to use the microwave....sigh....

 

[jgillott]

Taking a moment to update this thread. I ended up purchasing a Generac GP2200i. I had been eying it at the local dealer for a while now. I went over today to buy a lawn tractor battery and they had them on sale for $449.99. Regular list is $629.99. I don't ordinarily make spur of the moment purchases, but I couldn't pass up the price.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Thanks for the update.

Please keep us posted on how well it works for you. I’m unaware of anyone else with that specific generator. So, I’m curious. Luckily I’m not a cat.

 

[jgillott]

I certainly will. At the price point, I figured it was worth the shot.

The manual doesn't have a specific break in procedure listed. It just says to change the oil after 30 hours.

I'm running it right now for a few hours with a space heater varying the load. Quiet, starts on the first pull so far.

 

[jgillott]

Just to add, as far as I can tell, the Generac line is made in the USA. I don't know if that is for all of their units, but when I looked up the reviews on this one, it claims to be made here.

https://generatorgrid.com

 

[DHayden]

Please update how the Generac does. I am in the same position you are and was looking at those Generac but then I found the Rainier 2200 on Amazon. They were very close to the Honda's but I found it for 375 shipped, had very good ratings. I havent used it yet though, just came in last week. They can be chained like the Honda's but I figured I would try one first at that price and buy a second later if it did well. If it doesnt do well then I will switch to something else.
Bought mine on Amazon but same price here:
https://zumohome.com/products/raini...i2XJXbcJ_laz78cLi_62Lk_ZCG7x0egBoCXqsQAvD_BwE

 

[Mark31]

Are the Generac engines basically Blaggs and Flatton engines?

 

[TFucili]

Are the Generac engines basically Blaggs and Flatton engines?

It started out the other way around. When I was in the equipment business, Briggs & Scrap-Iron was so far behind the eightball, no commercial user would touch them with a ten foot pole. They went to Generac for the original Vanguard OHV engines. They referred to them as the "Nagano Engines". They were a whole lot better than the Briggs stuff, but were not on par with Honda, Kawasaki, and at the time Wisconsin-Robin, which later became Subaru-Robin(they were made by Fuji all along)and now they are gone. To be clear, this was in the 80s and 90s. My buddy had a Generac LP standby unit installed, and he is well pleased with it.

 

[seafish]

Years ago I had a BS Vanguard V-Twin OHV that powered a large BCS 2 wheels tractor/tiller/mower. while it ran very well,
that BS motor would NOT start without first removing the air cleaner and blowing out the carb with carb cleaner even if it had run just two weeks before. It was VERY fryusrarting. Eventually I called a reputable East Coast BCS dealer and he sold me an OEM Honda motor takeoff that fit the same tractor. Swapped the Honda for the BS and it starts up very time, even after not running all winter!!!
NO MORE BS motors for me!!!

 

[DonFitzwater]

If you had ~$1000 to spend on a new inverter generator, which one would it be. My gut tells me to pick up a tried and true Honda EU2200i to charge our batteries when boodocking and run the microwave or coffee pot once in a while. My buddy here has a Champion 75531i 3100w inverter generator and absolutely loves it (He beats the snot out of it and it just keeps on ticking). Tells me that I'm a fool to spend nearly double for a generator that can't do everything his Champion can.

Advantage Honda

Known reliability.

Sales/service center 5 miles from my home

Light weight and portable.

Disadvantage Honda

Can't run my AC unit if I don't add a soft start unit

Price $$$$

Advantage Champion

Price $$$

Can run everything in my trailer without modification

Built in 30a plug with no need for adaptors

Could buy a factory equipped dual fuel model if wanted.

Remote start available

Disadvantage Champion

Unknown service network

Weight/Size (they do come with wheels but that truck bed seems to get higher every year)

Louder


So what do you think? Help me spend my money.

I’m anti Honda for most products but I’ll give you my two cents; Honda generators are hard to beat. I’ve run them for years and had zero problems. Run them in crazy cold temps, poor fuel, little to no maintenance and never a failure. My dad ran a champion and had genset failure. I have a close friend that tried the smaller Yamahas and had constant oil consumption problems. They went back to Honda and reliability. Get the Honda and it’ll just run.

 

[jgillott]

I ran the new generator for quite a while yesterday. I'm fairly impressed with how quiet it is, especially on eco mode.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, running the AC is very low on my priority list. But, since I'm curious, I tried to fire it up on this little unit. To my surprise, it started and ran my Colman 13.5K AC without going in to overload. I tried it both in eco mode and normal and it worked both ways. With that said, it was only in the mid 70's yesterday and we are sitting at just 1900' elevation here. So it wasn't a good test of what it would be on a high demand day. But it worked none the less. We aren't AC people on a regular basis. But I may consider installing a Micro air soft start unit on my AC if we were to be planning on using it off the generator on a regular basis.

 

[AH64ID]

Back when I bought generators the Champion Inverter 3100’s weren’t out, so I went with a pair of EU2000i’s. I’ve been very happy with them, and am sure I will be for a long time.

That being said, if I were to repurchase today I’d be getting the Champion Inverter for 1/2 the price. I know they won’t last as long as the Honda, but my Honda’s don’t even have 500 hours in the last 7 years, and quite a few of those hours are doubles up. I’d guess a single unit might only have 350 hours on it.


Good luck with the Generac. I’ve seen nothing but trouble with them over the years in the campsites, thou not that specific model.