Hot juice vs Powermax?

[TX Gooseneck]

In my elimination for which box I want I am down to these two. I am staying away from pressure, so what I get with which ever of these boxes I buy is what I get.



Has anyone run these on the same truck to see the difference in results? What kind of power can I look for with my mods? (04. 5 600 with AFE intake with torque tube, HTB2/64 turbo, DD 80hp injectors, ATS exhaust manifold, straight piped exhaust and coming soon a FASS 150gph and an SBC FE clutch)



Also, is install similar? I know the TST is fairly involved, not sure about the edge box. Guide me!

 

[JVolpe]

I have ran both the HOT Juice/Attitude and TST PMCR w/twins programming on my truck with the same other mods. I stacked both with an EZ. The HOT Juice/Attitude and EZ stack was a great stack. No issues or codes and EGTs were well controlled. This combo and the other mods in my signature dyno'd around 480rwhp. A little over two hundred rwhp over stock.



The TST PMCR and EZ stack has more potential for more horse power, at least for me. The TST PMCR on 7/7 and EZ on Level 3 dyno'd a just over 500rwhp. The TST and EZ stack is not as smooth as the HOT Juice/Attitude and EZ were and does throw occasional codes. The potential for higher horse power is why I switched to the TST box. Drag racing is the application for me, HOT Juice combo ran consistent 13. 8s 1/4 mile and the TST combo runs consisten 13. 3s 1/4 mile.



The TST Cam Shaft and Crank Shaft sensor install is a PITA, but worth it to me. The Juice was an easier install, less connectors and don't have to get under the truck.



Either one would be ok, just how far do you want to go is what made my decision. Just my . 02.

 

[John Robinson]

I too have ran both head to head, Yes the tst had a little more, Its my opinion that the tst is for the Gear head type that is always fiddleing with his truck, And the hot juice is for the Regular guy that just wants to show off a little. I will start testing the 3. 3 from va soon. I will keep ya posted.

 

[WMoroni]

I have ran all three of these, edge juice attitude, hot version of previous and currently the tst. I am happier with the Tst, it is not as smooth as the juice but other than a very persistant 0336 code it is trouble free. The tst only throw the code at a certain rpm (1200), change in my driving habbit and it is not an issue. If you get the tst get the one with built in gauges because it will defuel at whatever EGT you set it at.



I had a lot of trouble with the edge juice. The injector harness was alway shorting out, and it was bad about defueling when it wasn't supposed to. The attitude monitor was also bad about changing settings by itself, but edge has had several updates since i had mine installed, hopefully they have this corrected.



The Tst has 2 more connections than the juice on an extra harness to plug in. They are for the crank and cam sensors, they can be agrevating but not really diffuclt. Practice with the connections on the harness before crawling under the truck so you will understand how the locking mechanism works on them.



Edge was very helpful and their customer service was outstanding but their product just didn't agree with my truck. I am much happier with the Tst it may not have as many features as the attitude but how many of the it's features do you actually need. The Tst is easier to set while driving down the road, not as many little buttons to push

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Have you guys towed with them at all? How is the smoke level with either box?



How is the crank & cam sensor utilized?



I love the buildability (if that's a word) of the TST and what can be done with it, but the unit with digital gauges looks like the Atari of power boxes, while the Edge is polished off nicely.



Jvolpe, did you run either of the boxes without the EZ stacked? At this point, I will force myself to be done with truck. I might consider head studs at some point, more boost and an alternative or upgrade to the CP3. But for awhile I will be done.



I don't race the truck at the track, but do tend to beat on it pretty good on the street.



WMoroni, I understand with finicky trucks. Mine was constantly throwing codes with the quad box and then my injectors committed sideways.



Any reports of which gives better mileage? I put a ton of miles on this truck, so that is a factor. Any other quirks that have presented themselves?

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Va 3.3

I too have ran both head to head, Yes the tst had a little more, Its my opinion that the tst is for the Gear head type that is always fiddleing with his truck, And the hot juice is for the Regular guy that just wants to show off a little. I will start testing the 3. 3 from va soon. I will keep ya posted.

I haven't heard of that box. Tell us about it. What does it do? Pressure, timing, duration... .

 

[JCleary]

... but the unit with digital gauges looks like the Atari of power boxes...

It may, but it performs like an X-box



I agree with the earlier statement that the J/A is for someone who wants to show off a little, and the TST is for someone who likes to tinker with his/her truck.



I swear, my Cummins has become my hobby. (And an expensive one at that!)

 

[JVolpe]

Jvolpe, did you run either of the boxes without the EZ stacked? At this point, I will force myself to be done with truck. I might consider head studs at some point, more boost and an alternative or upgrade to the CP3. But for awhile I will be done.



I don't race the truck at the track, but do tend to beat on it pretty good on the street.



Any reports of which gives better mileage? I put a ton of miles on this truck, so that is a factor. Any other quirks that have presented themselves?

Once again these are opinions you are getting on personal experiences and every truck reacts somewhat differently from what I have seen. I have not towed anything more than 3000lbs and not often.



I have ran both the TST w/Twins and HOT Juice without the EZ stacked. My SOTP meter tells me the HOT Juice/Attitude is a little more responsive on the low end than the TST on approximately the equivalent power settings, say 100hp. (Subjective of course). The HOT Juice also was better at keeping EGTs down pretty much across the board for me. The TST certainly has more on the upper end, along with more smoke and heat.



If racing and probable heavy future BOMBing were not my intensions, I probably would have stayed with the HOT Juice/Attitude and been very happy with it. Just my . 02 again.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

I don't mind working on the truck, but I don't want to HAVE to, to keep it running properly. I'm a sucker for smoke, so having the ability to do so is huge for me. But I'd also like it clean just poking around town.



Who in north texas will let me play with each?

 

[WMoroni]

Yes I have towed up to 20,000 with all the setups I mentioned earlier. All of them worked fine for towing. Smoke was controlled by setting it on lower levels. With the hot juice I towed on level 2/2. With the TST 2/1 or 3/2 depending on the load. I can't go much higher because EGT is to high with the stock turbo. I've got twins laying in my office waiting on a good day to install. The Tst on 3/2 with a big load would spin the stock clutch really easy. It would start to slipp at about 2100 under heavy accleration. the Tst seems to hit harder in that RPM band. The edge was smoother in power delivery and I never had an issue with the clutch with it.



I think the hot juice on level 2 and the Tst on 2/1 were about the same as far as fuel mileage improvement. Any settings above those stated and mileage starts to decline or at least it has for me. Last summer with out a box I drove my truck to memphis,TN and avg. 16mpg. About a month later I made the same trip with the hot juice, same driving conditions same batch of fuel out of my bulk tank (B20) and I avg 19. 2. About six weeks ago I went on the same trip with the TST and avg 18. 9. It was colder and different fuel and I probaly drove a little faster. But any way with either I saw a definant improvement in mpg. By the way I have to hand calculate all my mileage as I have the ST with no overhead console.



All in all both are probaly good boxes, and I would probaly still use the edge but my truck would kill em. Edge was great about getting me a new box but after about six of them I got tired of unplugging an replugging. Still have a hot juice in the closet that needs to be sent back to edge. Have not had one issue with the TST other than that mentioned earlier.



If you like smoke put the TST on anything higher than 5/5 and you will get it.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Was your box during Beta phase or production phase? Does the edge smoke much at all? My truck already hazes decently and can annoy people if I lug it.

 

[SRadke]

It's not a Beta issue with the Edge box failures. There is one guy on NW Bombers that has had his replaced something like six times. Personally, three strikes and you're out in my book.



-Scott

 

[JVolpe]

Was your box during Beta phase or production phase? Does the edge smoke much at all? My truck already hazes decently and can annoy people if I lug it.

TX Gooseneck



I have my HOT Juice/Attitude and Attitude A-Pillar mount in the box. Had a friend that was going to buy it, but he can't afford it right now. PM me if you are interested in it. It is original programming for 48re and 3. 73 gear. Needs to go back to Edge for reprogramming for 6sp or 4. 10 gear. We could work out a way for you to try it probably.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Jvolpe,

I couldn't put it to good use until I get my clutch in, but I will let you know.

 

[WMoroni]

No all the Edge stuff I got was production. It wasn't till about the third one that they even relized that they needed different boxs for the auto and the six speed. All the originals were programed for the auto. I'm going to go ahead and say it, I like the TST better than the juice. More adjustabilty, more room to grow, easier to ajust while going down the road (no menus to choose from ect. . )



Plus when you get a box you'll want to use it, and theeennn, you'll relize that Egt is too high when towing on a particular setting , and theeennn, you'll want to upgrade to twins, and then, well you get the idea. The TST will grow into whatever you want to do as far as I can tell.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Good points, especially that last part



My wife told me "If that one has more HP, who cares what it looks like, go with it!" God Bless her!

 

[TX Gooseneck]

Alright, shifting gears here, what is the difference, other than the turbo timer, between the R47 and the R49? Will the twins program affect me negatively in any way?

 

[SRadke]

If you have a stock turbo, or tight turbo, get the standard program. It's much more pleasant to drive.

 

[TX Gooseneck]

I have an HTT HTB2 62/12. I may step up to the 66 or the sps66

 

[RMalone]

Don't forget about the injectors your running. My TST is pretty much worthless above 2/2 since I put EDM's in the truck. I haven't been on a dyno or to the track, but Seat of pants the truck is quicker to spool with injectors, but doesn't seem to pull any harder. Lots more smoke at almost all throttle postitions. I don't know how agressive your injectors are but keep in mind they will have an effect on how you can use electronics.