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Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) how a p7100 works??? (detail please)

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Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 2nd genners with twins

Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Auto To Manual

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Found my book see post #6 above

Here is the book title page data:

Title: Diesel Fuel Injection

Published by Robert Bosch GmbH 1994

Distributed by Society of Automotive Engineers

400 Commonwealth Drive

Warrendale PA 15096-001 USA

ISBN 1-56091-542-0



I think I paid around $35 for it. I wasn't really looking for it when I came across it, just looking at Barnes & Noble. Ken Irwin
 
Kirwin said:
Here is the book title page data:

Title: Diesel Fuel Injection

Published by Robert Bosch GmbH 1994

Distributed by Society of Automotive Engineers

400 Commonwealth Drive

Warrendale PA 15096-001 USA

ISBN 1-56091-542-0



I think I paid around $35 for it. I wasn't really looking for it when I came across it, just looking at Barnes & Noble. Ken Irwin



That sucks, the book looks to be no longer avalible.

I did find this one though, I hope it has the p7100 info in it... anyone know?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0837611024/qid=1118189046/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-7527135-4244734?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
 
JGK said:
gtobey,



Thanks for the correction. So just how are the plungers rotated by the rack while moving up and down in the barrels, if that can be easily explained? I can't remember that it was explained or diagrammed in what I read (2 or 3 years ago!).



I was aware of the shims under the nuts for each barrel on the top of the pump, and the fact that they (barrels) are rotated slightly to match them up with each other. I watched the tech bench tune my pump and he rotated them all so as to get near max fueling possible with that adjustment yet still keep them balanced. Man, those pumps sure clatter on the test stand!



Thanks again,

-Jay



Hey Jay!



The plungers are rotated by the rack via plunger guides, that also hold the springs and retainers. This goes for all Bosch inlines. Yes, P pumps do put off an aggressive note. You should hear some of the non-automotive P pumps that we do. :eek: Course they don't compare to all the pulling pumps, they're pretty overboard.



Trever
 
still trying to figure out how to use this forum

cerberusiam said:
Do a search in this forum for the P7100 pump discusssions. There are some excellent discussions on pump operation, tuning, performance, etc, complete with pictures and diagrams. All the info you need is here in one form or another. You just gotta search.



I did do a search and there is a ton on little bits of info in thousands of different threads if i was to read them all i could read for days and would have successfully gotten more confused and only known a thousand little pieces of info (yeah they all add up but i'd still be confused as ever)... so i thought it would be a good idea to compile everyones info in to one thread.



gtobey, you've cleared up a few area's but im now confused about how the rack corelates (spelling?) with the plungers and cam, barrell, but i guess i just need to see a pump or some pictures maybe a diagram, but if those arent available i'll just have to take it for what its worth untill i see one.



One more question how do you quotes like JGK did to answer my questions? im still trying to figure out how to use the forum
 
I said in an above post how they connect to the rack.



To do a quote, click on the quote button on the bottom right of the message that you want to quote.





Off to work... . got to get a 3000 series A pump together today, and another one tomorrow. :p
 
TMaas--Good luck on the 3000 series pump today! I liked your comment about the noise! I've lost a lot of my hearing due to the P pumps(lots of Macks), the Cummins PT stand and the Model 100's. It's not a good thing, but it could make it kind of peaceful if your wife starts yelling... . although, I must say, the second time around is much better, and this one has been good to me. I am just sorry that I can't hear this one clearly when she speaks when I'm in another room. Be sure to wear your hearing protection. We didn't have that when I started working these things!



"gtobey, you've cleared up a few area's but im now confused about how the rack corelates (spelling?) with the plungers and cam, barrell, but i guess i just need to see a pump or some pictures maybe a diagram, but if those arent available i'll just have to take it for what its worth untill i see one. "



BManis- The rack in a P7100 Pump is a 90 degree bar of steel about 1/2" on each side and about as long as the pump housing with 6 slots cut in one of the bent sides (one for each cylinder) to connect to the segments that the plungers ride up and down in. The rack moves within the pump housing in guides. When the rack is moved toward the front of the pump, more fuel is delivered to the injectors. When the rack is pulled back toward the governor, less fuel or no fuel is delivered. The rack is in basic terms, the direct accelerator within the pump. Keep in mind, the rack is controlled by the governor, and the accelerator pedal in the truck tells the governor what you want, and the governor then controls the rack within the pump within the calibration settings.



The segments are like steel cylinders that fit around the barrel which becomes it's guide for rotating when the rack turns it. The segment has a small arm with a ball on it that fits into the slot in the rack so that the rack can turn it, and at the bottom of the segment is a flattened area on both sides that the plunger indexes into so that the segment can turn the plunger and yet allow it to have up and down motion. The plunger bottom rides on top of a roller tappet much like a roller valve tappet in an engine, and to keep all of this following the camshaft there is a spring around it all to keep the tappet in contact with the camshaft at all times. This lower part of the pump, below the fuel gallery, is lubricated with engine oil fed from the engine. The camshaft, tappet, rack, and segment area is sealed off from the upper fuel gallery area via o-rings so that you do not contaminate your engine oil with fuel and vice-versa. Image a camshaft and roller lifters in an engine, but instead of pushrods there are plungers on top of the lifters, and they are going up and down inside of the barrels so that they can deliver fuel to the cylinders. If you want an exploded diagram which may help you visualize what you are reading, pm or e-mail me and I can send one to you.



Take care...
 
Good explanation gtobey. I hesitated to go into detail, glad you took care of it.



Got the 4630 pump done today. Got three more up for this week yet. Found a bad housing today the bad way. Was running the low pressure fuel on the test stand, and there was a stream of fuel coming out on the engine (flat) side of the pump. Got to get a different housing for that one. It's odd that it's coming out on that side too. Don't know what to think. Would have thought that I would have caught it while flow timing the pump off the stand, but I didn't for some reason. ??? Wish they never would have done the 3000 series, flow timing the 2000's is much easier. I like the hole in the lifters on the 3000's for locking the lifters in. Have had bad experience with the tools for the 2000's. :)



Yes those Macks get loud. Some of those electronic inlines do. We've made a habit of using hearing protection, some use hearing protection with built-in radios. I haven't gone that way yet but might soon. I think our compressed air for drying parts is louder than the pumps get though.
 
wow thanks guy your input is great on this stuff i actual think i makes sense to me now:D haha and to think i started lookin for lifter forum and kind got side tracked. dam that always happens.
 
wanting to clarify that the p7100 was used from 94 to early 98. i love the pump it is expensive but excellent. looking for a very low mile 98 quad cab two wheel drive dually. five speed. 12 valve. i want to store it till my 95 cab and frame is worn out. long live the ever lovin fuel miser 12 valve!!! it seems like most of the 12 valve 98's were four wheel drive. hope i am wrong. maybe them just don't come up for sale ever. any one have any production numbers on this. thanks.
 
Assuming that the fuel plate was removed, and the governor wasn't pulling the rack back, what is the maximum duration (in degrees of crankchaft rotation) that a 215 hp pump can deliver fuel for? Also, typically, how much hp does it take to turn the p7100 at full fuel delivery at say 3000 rpm?

Mark
 
how much hp does it take to turn the p7100 at full fuel delivery at say 3000 rpm?



25-35 on a race pump as they will stall a small stand!



Jim
 
Thanks Jim. Any idea how many degrees of fuel we can get from a near stock, or ful blown race/pulling pump?



Has anyne ever modified a gear for the front of the pump to advance timing, sort of like centrifical and vacuum advance on distributors on gas engines? I'm guessing centrifical advace is out due to the high torque required to turn the pump, but it seems like that is one performance limitation I havent heard discussed.

Mark
 
Mark:



Most folks just run a boatload (maybe even a shrimp boatload... ) of static timing and call it a day... It isn't graceful or easy on parts, but it gets the job done.



I'd like to see a P-pump with variable timing, though... All of the electronic inline pumps I have seen only control the governor section. :rolleyes:



My suggestion to those that want to learn about pumps is to buy a spare, take it apart and do some learning. I bought a 4-cylinder 'a-series' pump on eBay and learned a lobster boatload of stuff from taking the governor section apart and looking into the other sections I was able to without ruining a perfectly good pump. I've also been able to learn a lot about VP-44's by taking a junk one apart...



On edit: The tractor pull guys are tight lipped, so I'll try to ask this question here. Do they run without a governor on the pump? They way those engines rev so quickly, I'd almost swear that their hand throttles are directly connected to the rack with no governor intervention... Don't try this at home, folks. :-laf



Matt
 
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"My suggestion to those that want to learn about pumps is to buy a spare, take it apart and do some learning. I bought a 4-cylinder 'a-series' pump on eBay and learned a lobster boatload of stuff from taking the governor section apart and looking into the other sections I was able to without ruining a perfectly good pump. I've also been able to learn a lot about VP-44's by taking a junk one apart... "



I would but only one thing holds me back..... $money$, so here i am with this thread
 
I have some diagrams showing the internal guts if anyone is interested. (if so, PM me with your email address)
 
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