How Are the Emissions Systems in Fourth Generation Holding Up?

[RUSSELL5000]

For those who have 2007. 5 through 2012 trucks, how have the emissions systems held up? Assuming you have not deleted, and realizing that the emissions system is hated#@$%!, my question is have you had problems over time?



I have come to accept that I will change the oil and oil filter very frequently due to dilution from frequent DPF regeneration cycles.



For those that have put some miles on their trucks, have you had any other problems?



Thanks!

 

[Simplysmn]

Well I'll start this started with a 08 2500 left it Totally Stock for 92,000 miles and 3 1/2 yr's Never any Troubles . Then traded that off for a 2011 3500 both truck's are auto trans with 410 gear's my 11 was 53,000 miles old when I traded it off and Again Never any Troubles that were not self caused . If you Notice the 1's crying to delete are either the Companies that make the deletes or somebody that has deleted and think's his MPG has done this Magic jump from low too way out of range . The way My mechanic Buddy has explained it too me is this . These truck's were Designed to run with the stuff on the truck . it's going to run fine as long as you take care of it . Drive it like a Truck and don't baby it like it's going to Break at any Min. We need too leave that too the Ford Guy's that break down at every corner . To be honest drive it maintain it and thing's will be Golden .

 

[RustyJC]

No problems whatsoever on my 2011. Never even a CEL.



Rusty

 

[tommyturbo]

Hello RUSSELL5000! The short answer to your question is YES. The emission system can hold up without problems. The long story is all about
attitude. Had Champion Dodge in Norwalk look for a new 08 Big Horn 4:10 axle. Found one in San Diego and two in Texas. Dealer drove the one
up from San Diego up and I took delivery. Noticed the Bluetec badge on tailgate. $995 charge on sticker. Supposed to be clean exhaust treatment.
Great! Isn't that wonderful! My sinuses will thank me. The first tow would be two months away so in the meantime the truck is a daily commuter
(10 min each way), machine shop work truck, grocery getter, everything. Just the first day got a "Regeneration Required" on overhead. Watched
the DVD manual and was shocked to heck at what I learned. Did I make a mistake? Will it be buyer's remorse? Googled up Bluetec and found
the nonstop "Emission Haters" rants everywhere. Me included. Buy back litigation, the whole shoot'n match! Learned from Forums and eventually
the TDR about deletes, tuners and EPA California. I felt emotionally sick, disappointed and angry. Then after the first long hard pull, I fell in love.
The truck satisfied every expectation. Rack and pinion steering, the right transmission gears for towing grades, exhaust brake, mileage better than
the previous 03 2500 5. 7 SLT 4:10. Now what am I going to do about this fuel powered DPF issue? Well, I studied the manual about Regeneration Required by
driving 50MPH for 45 minutes. That is actually about 1700 RPM. So the next time the promt came on just leaving the driveway, I took a 15 minute detour
to the shop. At 4:30 AM there wasn't much traffic, so I keep at least 1700 RPM such as 30MPH in 3rd, 40 in 4th, 50 in 5th. After about 15 minutes the
display showed "Regeneration Complete". Bingo! I know it really isn't complete but its enough until next time. No more freeway forced regeneration.
Evidently the exhaust system needs conditions met such as engine load, fueling, exhaust system heat and a steady accelerator pedal to keep these
conditions met. Regeneration seems to cycle what it needs in less time doing this. Sometimes driving around town, heavy active regens happen twice in only
two hours. No more" Regeneration Req" display for me. When I hear the plugged exhaust sound and see the EGT going up when driving, I plan the next
opportunity when I can drive an additional 15 minutes going somewhere. Even with keeping RPMs at least 1700 and shifting in tow haul fulltime and
using the +- shift selector as needed, still get about 13. 5 MPG city, 17. 5 freeway, 15 combined and 11. 1 towing. Also engine brake fulltime. Went to Dealer for a J-35 recall and a 2007. 5 single cab ST was before me and noticed the owner's demeanor was the "Emission Hater" look. I asked the service manager
about any buybacks and he said one customer's was bought back. I said, "That's Ridiculous". Once in a while the Dealer would call and try to interest me into
buying a new CTD. I just say "Wild Horses Couldn't Drag Me Away From My '08". Words cannot describe the thrill when get behind the wheel. "Oh Goody", I need to pick up some cutting tools down in Orange CO for a hot rush job. Get all misty recalling towing the Cherokee TT up the I-5 southbound
at 65 MPH in 5th @2250 RPM passing most everything. Towing from Tucson to LA against the wind near Joshua passing most everything. The churning
Cummins never missing a beat. The turbo whistle echoing off the sides of cars slowing down to a stop light. Warms an old man's heart. I can say that the 2007. 5to 2012 emission system can hold up very well. It's all about attitude.

Tom

 

[crispyboy]

Russell5000,
My attitude about the trucks emission system is really starting to change and I guess I am one of the UNLUCKY ones. I have a 2009 truck with an emission system that is closer to what is on the early 4th generation trucks and for most of the time I have been pretty happy with the quiet and stink free exhaust (minus the stink of regeneration).
Now I am really starting to hate it!
By all accounts the turbo is full of soot from the EGR valve at 45k miles and will have to be replaced. Traffic lights seem to be the longest idle time the truck gets. It sits in my garage so I don't have to let it warm up in the winter. Most of my miles are towing a 8000 lb travel trailer. My "short trips" are usually 10 miles of 55 mph highways except for the occasional puttering about at a campground. If the truck emission system can't handle this type of driving then yes "it is a poorly designed system". The general public should be able to get in a vehicle and drive it normally. I was thinking the other day about all of this stuff and realized that when the truck is idling or driving an occasional short distance I am wringing my hands worried about the stupid emissions system getting clogged and I have never once had a CEL or DPF problem. WHAT A WAY TO LIVE!!!
Once I get the turbo fixed I feel like I have two options because by all accounts I had planned on keeping this vehicle for several years. 1. ) Sell it for a gasser or find a black market fix for it (which is something I hoped I would never have to do... ..... )
Here is my saga -
https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?244112-Sudden-p2262-code

 

[tommyturbo]

To crispyboy, I read your posts about your p2262 codes and my attitude would be the same as yours. I would be mad as heck.

My last reply to RUSSELL5000 was mostly about an approach to managing the DPF sooting problem. In June '09 got a cel for

code P2A01 and Dealer did TSB 18-035-08 O2 sensor wrap. Truck ran fine during that cel anyway. That code was history

after that. Then in Mar '10 got a cel for p2580 but truck ran ok. Dealer replaced turbo speed sensor. That was the end of that

code. In Mar '10 started to get cel p2262 and p1451 turbo related codes. Truck ran fine, cleared codes. April 25 '10 cel p1451 and p2262. Truck ran fine. Cleared codes. April 27, '10 J-35 recall done. May 20, '10 cel p2262 and 1451. Truck ran fine. Cleared codes.

June 2,'10 cel P2262, P1451 and P2299. Truck ran fine. Cleared codes. July 12,'10 cel P2262 and P1451. July 14,'10 , Oct 28,'10

same thing. Truck ran fine, cleared codes. Then I took my whacky driving strategy to the extreme by getting the exhaust brake

exercised as much as possible. Since then I drive 40 MPH roads in 4th and downshift to 3rd decelerating to a stop. 45 to 50 MPH roads

in 5th and downshifting to 4th then 3rd decelerating to a stop. I downshift with manual gassers the same way. The +- rocker shift

switchboard really gets a workout. Probably why I replaced two already. No cels and no codes since 10-28-10. That is why I'm at

peace with emissions finally. Attitude adjusted accordingly. I wouldn't expect anyone to follow my strategy as it is too far out from the

norm. Emissions have spoiled the Diesel Experience, probably forever. The pre '07 days are gone. See what I had to do in my case.

In your case, crispyboy, I don't think trying my strategy would fix your turbo problem. You truly must be unlucky with this one.

I would bear down on warranty if possible. Something is definitely wrong as other replies report good luck. I know the feeling as

when I bought a new "96 Dakota lemon. Got rid of it and bought a new '97 Dakota. Best small truck to date. I hope you find

a solution for your '09. If it weren't for the emissions, I bet you would love your truck as much or more as I love mine. The very best of luck,



Tom

 

[Texas Ted]

Crispyboy,

I bought my '07 in July of that year. It was one of the first 6. 7’s off the line. There were no problems right out of the gate. I only remember one warning of dpf 80% full and that occurred in a small town on the Oregon Coast where I was spending the summer. I was doing very little driving at higher speeds at that time. There were several software revisions over the first few years of ownership, most notably the J-35 fix. I give credit to the TDR and you guys for keeping me updated to any new problems that "might" occur with my truck.

I use the it mostly for on highway driving with a large 5 wheel and it performs admirably. I have had no problems whatsoever and it shows every indication that it will run very well for many miles to come. I presently have 60,000 mi on the odometer. My mileage figures jive exactly with those of “tommyturbo. ”

I’ve read and worried myself because of all the issues reported here and elsewhere and considered a dpf delete kit but as the years roll by and nothing bad happens then I’m a happy camper! Remember the enforcers are becoming stronger and more heavy handed!

The truck is bone stock by the way. Ted

 

[Cummins12V98]

I was towing for hours the EVIC said to keep driving so I dropped a gear and hammered it the message went away and has never came up again that was around 5K. The truck is around 31K now.

I think it was a computer blip.

Truck has been awesome!

 

[RUSSELL5000]

crispyboy - wow, sure am sorry to read what you are going through. I looked at my warranty book - I would think warranty would apply unless you have already eclipsed the miles.

I appreciate the information, and please let us know how it evolves.



I appreciate the comments from others. Sound like a goodd TDR article woul be "The Proper Care and Feeding of the 2007. 5 through 2012 NOx Absorber and DPF. " I do not use my truck for daily driving - I have a small Jeep Patriot that I putter around in - so I have given no thought to driving strategy as tommyturbo has.



I don't see a great many comments - is this because deleting is extremely common or that there have not been that many issues?





Thanks.

 

[DonFitzwater]

53,000 miles and only one check engine light for O2 sensor out of range and that was a three trip visit to the dealer to get taken care of, mainly due to service writers and techs not being competent. Bob on here got me squared away with the TSB number that I needed and when armed with that, the dealer took care of a wiring harness swap for the O2 sensors and no more CEL's since then. The regens are nearly seamless. I do know lots of guys here that have deleted and are happier but I'll leave mine stock till the warranty is up.

 

[EGroeneveld]

About 55,000 miles on my 2011 and no issues with the emissions stuff...

My commute for work is a big 6 miles, my dually is my daily driver so I run all my errands in it around town, work, gym, stores, bank, coffee runs, etc... . no issues.

I do haul a heavy Truck camper and tow almost every weekend, usually out of town so the truck does get used hard two or three times a month at minimum...

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Appreciate the reponses - but, I expected to have a hundred pages of posts by now (based on the feeling of the general level of resentment regarding the emissions).



So far it looks to me like the problems are concentrated in the first few model years - makes me think they rushed things into production before they were wholly determined. It looks to me like the emissions systems are npw working on a level with the entire truck - that is, don't appear to be a problem to any greater extent than the other systems on the truck.



I am a whopping two miles from work, so I would not be using the truck daily even if it had no emissions sytems at all; my understanding is that such short trips which never allow the engine to come up to temperature constitute the hardest, most wearing use of all. I change the oil in my Jeep Patriot every three months because of this even though I record only around 1,500 miles in those three months.



From other threads it looks to me like fuel economy under a load - which for me means pulling my travel trailer - is pretty much in line with earlier model years. In fact, it is looking to me like configuration of the trailer is having a lot more to do with fuel economy towing that the emissions system.



I come to the conclusion that I will need to change the oil more frequently due to the soot loading caused by lower combustion chanber temperatures and exhaust gas recirculation and oil being diluted by fuel from regeneration cycles. It seems like a good idea to drive with the exhaust brake on all the time as well. Other than that, I think I can just be on my way and not give a second thought to emissions.



Does that make sense?

 

[tommyturbo]

RUSSELL5000, Just like to mention oil changing. Everybody has a preference to when to change oil.
My preference may be regarded as too often by many. Wasting money. All the vehicles I owned
had the oil changed at around 5,000 miles. My thinking is that even though the lubrication
properties of the oil were ok, the contaminants such as acids and other products of combustion
are not good. Now my '08 CTD "OIL CHANGE REQUIRED" promt goes off around 4,000 to
5,000 miles and right in the ballpark to what I am used to. I just take it to a tire service shop
and get an oil and filter change plus tire rotation. I bring my own oil and filter and am charged
$20. 00. They like the Fumoto finger touch because the catch pan tank needs to be dumped
once to get the rest of the 12 qts + out. Also keeps a "heavy hands" monkey away from the
drain plug. Since I prefer synthetics, AMZOIL has a new diesel oil they say is for frequent oil
changes. They say it does not have the extended life ingredients as the premium DME 15-40.
Its called OE 15-40. $2. 23 less per quart in a four gallon case. So the DME is $7. 09/qt and
OE is $4. 87/qt. That is with a 20% preferred customer discount applied. Shipping and tax
are extra. It is delivered right to my door. There are also AMZOIL dealers in the TDR.
Anyway, just another two cents

Tom

 

[Larry Willard]

Just got rid of my early '08 with 92000 miles, only emission related problem was EGR stuck open at 72000.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Tom,



I am right in line with you on oil changes - I do more frequently than the schedule. I have not gotten a message on the EVIC; I don't think I will since thevast majority of the time my truck is on the highway working hard.



I do all filters and fluids ahead of schedule - I suppose I waste some money, but this truck is by far the most expensive vehicle I have purchased and I feel it is worth a couple of hundred dollars a year extra to keep things protected.



Russell

 

[DBithell]

crispyboy - you really do have it correct. those really are your two choices. 1) gasser or 2) black market fix. sucks.

 

[DBithell]

tommy - your last sentence says it all. "if it weren't for the emissions... . "

 

[DBithell]

was talking to diesel expert (big rig regional sales manager) last night about EGR. He claimed that the amount (of exhaust) being pumped back into the engine has greatly been decreased thanks to SCR. Claimed something like 50% 2007ish to 13% now. Truth?

 

[jgillott]

was talking to diesel expert (big rig regional sales manager) last night about EGR. He claimed that the amount (of exhaust) being pumped back into the engine has greatly been decreased thanks to SCR. Claimed something like 50% 2007ish to 13% now. Truth?

I know the percentages were drastically reduced, but I'm not sure of the exact numbers.

 

[AKetay]

Traded my 09' in June with 358k miles. Had to replace EGR that stuck open around 271k miles. That cracked the DPF, so it smoked a little. Never cleaned the EGR cooler. It didn't do as many regens as it got older. Consider it a successful work truck. By the way, it averaged 53. 16 mph over it life with me.