Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) how can I increase power and still tow?

[CSnyder]

Okay guys... . I have been thinking hard about how to do this but I'm not the most intelligent person when it comes to diesels.

I use my truck every day to haul farm equipment pulling an assortment of 5th wheel trailers... . so please keep this in mind with your suggestions.

I WANT MORE POWER!!!

I already have a hypertech tuner, guages are ordered, 4 inch straight pipe exhaust, and Napa BHAF will be installed tomorrow.

Now my question is..... Can I twin my baby? Is this practical or am I dreaming? What else can I do besides injectors and a drag box? Can I run twins without any more mods?? Or do I need more mods to run them?

I would ideally like to get 600-750 horsepower and still be able to run as a hotshot driver. Thank you all in advance for any suggestions you can make!

 

[Bob Wagner]

Been there and done that. The Catcher ecm upgrade and a mild set of injectors (130HP or less) and a turbo upgrade (hybrid 40) make's a fantastic towing combination hands down.



Do a little research and save some dollars

 

[Hohn]

Heavy towing and 700hp don't mix well.



Bob is right on with his recommendations. For heavy towing, you want to forgo additional timing advance.



So, some Mach 1. 5s or Mach 2s and a TST PowerMax3 (with remote) is the way to go for towing. A dodgezilla or similar hybrid 35/40 should be enough to keep it cool at all but the highest altitudes. Even then, just back off the box and you'll be fine.



If you want to do this on the cheap, then a TST box and some 275s or Mach 1s is tough to beat and the stock charger (with a stick shift) will handle it, albeit on the edge.



Justin

 

[Jetpilot]

It can be done but 750 HP is not realistic, 600 is though. To do it right you need to put the right parts on there... . Good free flowing O-ringed head, right turbo or turbos with low backpressure, and adjustable box (personally I like the Edge boxes for the additional timing it helps with egt's but cylinder pressures are higher). Good injectors are also important Mach 2. 5's are about the best I have used for all around power but you are going to be short of 600 with them. If you want 600+ then probably need mach 5's or 6's depending on headwork and turbo's.



I am personally not in favor of the Catcher because HP has been shown to decrease on the dyno and times slower at the strip... ... . I know lots of guys are happy with their Catcher but I am a numbers type guy and like quantifiable results not seat-of-the-pants observations, (just my $. 02 worth).



So can it be done, yes. Is it cheap, no and be careful of parts selection as all are not created equal.



Doug

 

[Bob Wagner]

doug, opie dyno gain was 50Hp on the dyno. Yes we did learn a lesson one the first batch of catchers. opie is now running a different software version.



The are other with the second software update.

 

[Jetpilot]

Bob,



Sorry about that..... Last time I spoke with some of the guys running the Catcher this was not the case. That is great if HP is increased and measurable!



Doug

 

[Jetpilot]

Bob,



Who all has gained HP on the dyno? I did made a few inquires and didn't come up with anyone that was happy with their dyno results... ... Not trying to bash anyone just trying to get some info.



Thanks,



Doug

 

[JRagland]

This needs cleared up. Every time I'm ready buy a Catcher, something new comes up and I back out. An increase in the seat-of-the-pants feel doesn't help for long if a Ford Explorer still beats you because of lower real HP and track times. After the new software, it has been compared to an Edge EZ in HP gains with some quicker throttle response. If that is not what is really being seen, we need to know. Seat-of-the-pants increase may still be worth it, but I would like know.

 

[Marco]

Here's the answer from the horse mouth...



The lower Hp numbers someone was getting were due to an "conflict" between the CaTCHER software and boxes that add timing.



The raised timing from the CaTCHER + Timing from the box = too much.



I've revisited the CaTCHER software with different timings. The problem is solved.



Now we have two different CaTCHER versions. The original with the raised timing and the "Special" with close to stock timing. Which one you want, is based upon what kinda box ( timing or not ) you stack with the CaTCHER.



Marco

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Okay guys... . I have been thinking hard about how to do this but I'm not the most intelligent person when it comes to diesels.

I use my truck every day to haul farm equipment pulling an assortment of 5th wheel trailers... . so please keep this in mind with your suggestions.

I WANT MORE POWER!!!

I already have a hypertech tuner, guages are ordered, 4 inch straight pipe exhaust, and Napa BHAF will be installed tomorrow.

Now my question is..... Can I twin my baby? Is this practical or am I dreaming? What else can I do besides injectors and a drag box? Can I run twins without any more mods?? Or do I need more mods to run them?

I would ideally like to get 600-750 horsepower and still be able to run as a hotshot driver. Thank you all in advance for any suggestions you can make!

Knowing that you tow a lot... What you do means that at any HP level you have to be beefier than the hot-rod grocery getter.



500hp is possible with your 5spd truck with 100-120hp injectors, a drag comp, exhaust, and twins. Porting the head will help a lot too. Any 24v will require fueling system upgradees to keep up.



550+ starts getting into o-rings, studs, porting, transmissions, etc. You start to loose the ability to control part throttle smoke. This is the limit of the single disc clutch.



At 600+ if you plant the tires it's likely to break... input shafts, clutches, u-joints, yokes, axles etc. This is the point where a dual disc clutch is neccessary. Shifting quality is reduced and wear on the transmission is increased. The DD clutches use 1 3/8" input shafts. the input shaft is now stronger than the NV4500 it's inserted into It will fail.



In short a 500-550 hp daily driver/tow vehicle is easy to maintain and will live a long time. Above that they become high maintenance and start to loose practicality. Don't get me wrong. I am building my own 600+hp daily driver but I'm not making a living with it... and it's getting an auto



FWIW,

Mark

 

[JRagland]

Thanks Marco.

 

[KYLE4]

Towing heavy with 180HP over stock hybrid 35/40 will have your egt's cooking unloaded truck sure easily achieved. pulling farm equipment you will need a bigger charger than a hybrid

 

[Jetpilot]

Marco.



This is NOT what several of the guys I contacted informed me..... One of the guys was running the new version and still is not pleased with the dyno numbers. Who has two dyno sheets that show side by side runs with a HP gain? Don't feel like I am bashing anyone or anything I would just like to see some hard proof.

 

[aarlucas]

Here's the answer from the horse mouth...



The lower Hp numbers someone was getting were due to an "conflict" between the CaTCHER software and boxes that add timing.



The raised timing from the CaTCHER + Timing from the box = too much.



I've revisited the CaTCHER software with different timings. The problem is solved.



Now we have two different CaTCHER versions. The original with the raised timing and the "Special" with close to stock timing. Which one you want, is based upon what kinda box ( timing or not ) you stack with the CaTCHER.



Marco

Marco,

Based on what you have said, I have a question. I have a 99 bone stock with NO addons except gauges. I tow a 10K trailer for my drag racing addiction. Which one of your boxes should I use and what are the benefits over the stock ecm?

Thanks,

Rick

 

[R-N-R]

If you run a Catcher with a Comp, and the Catcher's timing is set at "near" stock levels, what is the advantage of the Catcher/Comp combo? Not looking for intellectual property here, but what other areas besides timing and fueling does the Catcher enhance? Or, what advantage does the Catcher provide when teamed with a Comp?



how can I increase power and still tow? ... what Hohn and Jetpilot stated...

 

[Marco]

Jetpilot,

I don't know whom you're talking about. ALL them guys with the special version who have reported to me directly and/or public on the web had nothing than positve things to say about it combined with the comp.



So I don't know what to say... :{

If you could provide more details, would be great.



aarlucas,

If you want to add only the CaTCHER or maybe an non timing box, no doubt the original version with the raised timing.



Rock-N-Rammer

Since you mention the intellectual property...

There's more into an ECM software than just fuel and timing, much more. .

no I don't want to elaborate, sorry.

Now to answer your question, "what is the advantage of the Catcher/Comp combo"?

I guess everybody has it's own opinon and thought's. For me there is no advantage, I don't need any box in my truck. I'm happy without one.

I guess for others the reasoning is the same like upgrading an EZ or VA to an wire tapping box.

See what I mean?



Oh, yeah, with my wimpy 400 and change horses I can easily max out the coolant temp running unloaded. What I really would like to know is how you can manage to keep the engine coolant at reasonable temps TOWING with 500+ horses? Downhill???



Marco



Marco

 

[Jetpilot]

Marco,



I don't think I should publically post names here. But I would like to see any before and after dyno sheets to show the HP gain.



It looks to me like what the catcher program does is retard timing. This would help with turbo spoolup but also would be a waste of energy to the rear tires... ... If fuel is being added later then it has less time for burn in the combustion chamber. Normally for HP running advance on the timing creates more HP. Granted it is not as simple as this but this is basically how an Edge box works, etc. In fact guys with the p-pumped truck add timing not subtract it for better egt's and performance all the time.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"So I don't know what to say...

If you could provide more details, would be great. "



Easy to figure out Marco, he wants NAMES of those using your ECM mods who have more than hear-say claims or guesses as to power increases or better dragstrip times - anecdotal or "seat-of-the-pants" guestimates really won't buy much - documented PROOF *will*!



I'm sure simply PMing him with pointers to those who fit the equation would do the trick and still maintain a high degree of member privacy - if they prefer to NOT be publicly identified for some weird reason...

 

[Marco]

Jetpilot sez:

I don't think I should publically post names here

Of course NOT! That's not what I was thinking/wanting! Since you seem to know facts that I don't, I thought you might be able to elaborate on what/when does not work with the "special" CatCHER.



Maybe something as simple as... dunno... He's not happy high RPM performance...



Marco

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

"So I don't know what to say...

If you could provide more details, would be great. "



Easy to figure out Marco, he wants NAMES of those using your ECM mods who have more than hear-say claims or guesses as to power increases or better dragstrip times - anecdotal or "seat-of-the-pants" guestimates really won't buy much - documented PROOF *will*...

I don't have experience with the catcher but a lower ET at the strip does constitue 'proof' of more power assuming similar track conditions. A lower ET is NOT a 'guestimate' but a measured difference in overall performance. The trick is ensuring that the tests are performed under matching conditions.



The tone of this entire conversation is what tends to drive a lot of vendors away from discussion on the TDR. You guys aren't being very polite. Putting Marco on the defensive is not the way to get him to share information in a constuctive manner.



FWIW,

Mark