How did water get in rear axle??? $1,100 ago

[ENafziger]

there is still enough heat generated to drive off minor amounts of moisture

Maybe... the gauge on my front differential with Mag-Hytec cover has never gone over 140° F. This was before installing the manual locking hubs. However, I'm sure with the factory cover it would run a little hotter.

 

[steved]

Maybe... the gauge on my front differential with Mag-Hytec cover has never gone over 140° F. This was before installing the manual locking hubs. However, I'm sure with the factory cover it would run a little hotter.

That's all the hotter my rear differential runs... just measured it after running nearly 400 miles of highway.

 

[Wingate]

If the seal was directly exposed to the water pressure AND it didn't have the outer lip seal AND it was stationary for a long period of time that may happen. Not gonna happen driving thru puddles, not gonna happen even if the water is deep enough to go over the axle and you blow thru it. All the water pressure is displaced by the axle punching thru the water and it does not have time to hit the seals.



Really guys, dropping a hot gear box into water and using that as a definitve example that water gets by the seals? Comparing ATV's with a totally different sealing system? :-laf Ya gotta make some realistic comparisons here.



The axle seals are buried behind the drums and there is no possible way to put the force of water to them. The pinion seal has a cover that completely protects it from direct contact. The only pressure applied to the seals is indirect and very little if one is moving. The outer lip seal is both a dust and water seal. It is formed to seal tighter with more pressure. Again, if the correct seals are used and they are good no water is gonna get by them.



I spent many years fording rivers, creeks and standing water with all kinds of 4x4's. Seldom had water in the diff problems. It just doesn't happen. The only time we had problems was if the breather tube was cracked or tore off, or, we stuck one and had to let it sit for an exteneded time in water.



Condensation cannot make the amount needed to destroy the gears, just driving in rain cannot let in that amount of moisture. The OP doesn't launch a boat and unless he is a closet mud bogger that leaves the truck sitting overnight stuck somewhere, the only possible explanation is the gear oil.



While some of the Lucas products may be good, multiple examples of the gear oil being useless convinces me it ain't.

Well I guess thats why some are Democrats and some are Republicans... . cause we just plain DON'T agree. . While you say it can't happen and may have NEVER witnessed it happening... As intensely as you believe your point, I have personally witnessed this on ATV's, Mud Trucks, stock trucks being ran in the mud and deep water...

Maybe we just got better mud in East Texas. . ????. .

Or maybe we just ride harder and go deeper than your "river fording"...

Maybe ya'll are smarter and go thru and out to dry safe land... While we go thru, then back up again and again until we GET stuck!!!. . Keep trying until you're successful!!. .

I do agree with ya on one thing... I have also heard that Lucas is Junk. . Bipartisanship!!!. . r

 

[cerberusiam]

I do agree with ya on one thing... I have also heard that Lucas is Junk. . Bipartisanship!!!. . r

Well, we will just have to build on that one agreement point then.

 

[steved]

Don't quote me, because this was posted a LONG time ago on PavementSucks.com, but I want to remember a member was swapping AAMs under an 2nd Gen 1500 dodge (when those axles were first introduced) and contacted AAM regarding seals and other details. I want to remember they told him those seals would handle 250psi before they would leak... which sounded ridiculously high even then.



I always though that, while I can understand the whole cooling of a heated assembly causing a vacuum; a sudden dunking wouldn't cool that housing that fast (you would essentially be in and out before anything reacted)... and further, it would mean you had been driving a long ways prior to off-roading (to get the axle hot) before dunking said axle. In other words, a lot of things would have to be "just right", and assume the axle vent tube is plugged (which should cause major oil leaks prior to your whole water crossing event).

 

[mwilson]

In my experience and my experience only, both rears were slightly warm, not hot at all. Had only driven truck about two miles before immersing them in the Androscoggin River. My rears sucked the water in thru the breathers, large truck breathers don't have any type of check valve or ball in them, only have a rattle cap. If cap fell off then a Budweiser twist off bottle cap fits the vent just right. :-laf

Very latest style Eaton Rears have a rubber tube that comes off of the side of the breather and drops down the outside of the housing to below the level of the gear oil in the axle tube. Maybe that helps to keep unwanted moisture out. Some physics involved, I'm sure. :-laf

I have never seen a seal allow water in unless the bearing behind it is trashed.

Vents, yes. Seals, no.

 

[cerberusiam]

only have a rattle cap.

Exactly. Even a rattle cap to release pressure will seal back down with outside pressure. thats the way they are made.



However, considering the amount of debris in the locations thy failure to seal with outside pressure is a given. A little piece of dirt and with enough time submerged you will get some water in the diff.



How much is the question. Naturally if you park in the water it will be more. Just fording for 30-60 seconds or driving thru standing water, not much. Not enough to cause damage in my experience.



With the cap broken, which they frequently are, or a cracked hose, again frequent, several times thru enough water is going to start turning the fluid milky and thin. Not gonna happen driving in rain or not submerged though, as the OP indicated.

 

[steved]

But pulling water through the vent, is different than pulling through the seal... if the vent isn't submerged, you should be water-free.

 

[zzman]

Well I put the cap back on the tube, the vent didn't seem to be blocked. It is mounted on top of the left shock, never have I been in water that deep.

I am going to assume the Lucas is at fault here. When the rear end cover was removed, it looked bad, it reminded me of an old minnow bucket that I left hanging from the pier 3 years ago.

I was afraid the transmission may be watery too so I changed the fluid in it. It looked as good as it did when I put it in about 6 months back. NO not Lucas but that Pennzoil Mesh stuff.

I use 2 qts Lucas with my engine oil each change, so ya'll think thats a bad deal too?

Also I use Lucas injector lub about every other 100 gals. what's your thoughts there?

I use this truck pretty hard and I feel I need a little help with addatives.

Lucas Hub Oil in the trailer hubs, seems to work real good.

OK let me have, I need to know, I am a HARD HEADED fool at times.

 

[flyby night]

I use Lubrication Engineers 1605 Gear Lube. It is AWESOME! It will coat all of the parts in your rear end and protect them like nothing else out there. It does not mix with water no matter what you do to it. I have some in a bottle that has equal the amount of water in it. It has been in there for over 2 years. You can shake it violently and by the time you set it down, the water has separated from the oil. It is hard to see into the bottle for a few minutes as the purple colored oil coats the inside of the bottle and keeps the water from touching it. Your axle housing will have to rust from the outside in for you to have water damage your diffs.

 

[steved]

Lucas injector cleaner is regarded as a pretty good product.



Their oil additive is nothing but a thickener (no useful additives). Thicker oil takes longer to pump at cold start, so you could possibly be adding to wear by using the Lucas.



A quality oil/lubricant will have ALL the required additives they need...

 

[zzman]

At start up, the oil pressure climbs as soon as it starts cranking, it always starts within one second of cranking. I hardly ever turn it off until I reach home again.

I use the Lucas oil additive at first because it looked as tho it would stay on the engine parts better, like in the counter display with the gears and hand crack. Then I noticed it kept the oil feeling tacky for a long time. This old method I've used to tell if the oil needs changing or not. It may not be scientific but I believe it works. I change oil about 10-12k miles, the oil is still tacky then too but plenty black. Without the Lucas the oil would feel rather thin and thinner with more and more miles. I don't know, it may be just me but I think it works.

The injector lube seems to cut down the smoke and the extra lube for the fuel pump seems to make sense.

Knock on wood I guess... . no engine issues yet, dang I wish I hadn't said that.

 

[steved]

Considering the ECM controls the oil pressure gauge, I wonder why the oil pressure is instant???



Put a real gauge on it, and see what happens...

 

[TCDiesel]

The factory oil pressure gage is worthless, notice the collation between hotter coolant Temps, if the coolant temp reads above 215* the oil pressure drops.

 

[ENafziger]

I use 2 qts Lucas with my engine oil each change, so ya'll think thats a bad deal too?
Also I use Lucas injector lub about every other 100 gals. what's your thoughts there?
I use this truck pretty hard and I feel I need a little help with addatives.

I used a quart of lucas with every oil change in my brand new 350 gas crate engine in my Chevrolet, and the engine was completely junk in 80k miles. It wouldn't even hold oil pressure at an idle unless you ran 20-50w oil and 2 quarts of lucas. After that experience, and reading on Bob the Oil Guy, I'll never use it again. That's not really scientific evidence, but one ruined engine is enough for me!

As other's have said, the injector cleaner is probably alright.

If you're interested in gauging oil performance parameters, you really need a manual oil pressure gauge, manual oil temperature gauge, and send off routine oil analysis samples.

I have both gauges, and even with a good quality 5w-40 synthetic, it can be as long as 20 seconds before cold oil gets pumped up through the trunions and rockers!!!

I too run my truck very hard at times (4,000 rpm sledpulling, 105+ mph for over an hour, grossing 18,000 lbs at 90+ mph for 2 hours straight, hours of 4wd low off-road crawling in hot temperatures, etc). (Note: I realize none of the above is smart to do with regard to safety and longevity ). Nonetheless, I have seen oil temperatures above 260° F.

I think the best you can do for oil, is run a good quality true synthetic (Schaeffer's 9000, Amsoil Marine CI4+ 15w-40, etc) and add a little ZDDP if you're not worried about catalyst poisoning.

--Eric

 

[steved]

The factory oil pressure gage is worthless, notice the collation between hotter coolant Temps, if the coolant temp reads above 215* the oil pressure drops.

My sarcasm didn't show??

 

[TCDiesel]

My sarcasm didn't show??

Yep it Did. I just wanted to add to it. Its absolutely pathetic that the oil pressure corresponds to coolant temp.

 

[steved]

I find it disturbing that the ECM is programmed to wait 3 minutes without oil pressure before indicating to the operator they have no oil pressure!

 

[HBarlow]

It has always troubled me also that our oil gauges are artificially driven by the ECM, not actual oil pressure.

But apparently Cummins, Inc. has such confidence in the engine in general and the crankshaft and oil pump system that they believe a real oil pressure gauge is not important.

It's pretty rare to hear of a Cummins engine with a failed crank, rods, bearings, etc. and perhaps influenced by modifications when it does happen.

 

[steved]

It's pretty rare to hear of a Cummins engine with a failed crank, rods, bearings, etc. and perhaps influenced by modifications when it does happen.

I've heard of only one instance over the years... and that truck never made it off the dealer's lot. Supposedly the oil pump shaft sheared when it was initially started after assembly (and I want to remember it never hurt the engine, assembly lube?).