How does oil analysis work?

[loncray]

Oil Analysis

Seems to me that everybody's situation is different - we can argue about this all week, but for some people oil analysis is invaluable, but for others it just isn't worth the money. I'm going to do it on my second oil change and see what it says and I'll go from there.

 

[rblomquist]

E7Mack96



Are you still doing analysis at 5k intervals and are you going 10k on 1 oil filter (stratopore)?



Thanks in advance

 

[C Schomer]

Just getting back. Joe, I'm sorry if you took my post as sarcastic. I didn't call names and I only stated the blunt truth. I took that stance after reading your remark about analysis to satisfy morbid curiosity and seeing you haven't tried analysis to understand it. I do it because I got tired of changing on the road and want to pick my times with more flexability. If you want to wait til they smoke and knock, that's fine. I'm not trying to convert you. I, like the others who have posted, have seen minor problems and took action before the big bill hit. It happens to the best - in and out of warranty. I think you would like it if you give it some time, ESPECIALLY when you see a small problem that would lead to a big one. I run like a Hot Shotter and have caught my diff lube on the brink of additive depletion and believe me, it looked almost like new stuff. Heat was getting to it and the damage was invisible - it didn't show bad color or smell at all. I crunched the numbers and my program is cheaper than the old change and toss it way. Even with a test ($9. 50) every 5k miles, the Oilguard will be paid for at 35K. I figured every 45k after that will be a savings of $100 but that's not the reason I do it. It's a nice bonus along with the test reports. Tossing a full change of cheap stuff costs much more compared to the makeup for the full flow filter change and oil burning with the expensive syn. stuff. I think a good bypass is necessary with ext. syn. service - it takes out the stuff the FF doesn't get. There is continual replenishment of additives even with ext. service. The makeup oil (2 - 2 1/2 qts every 5k) for the FF change and normal usage is keeping my oil chemistry nearly like new. I still do the 3k routine on my car. There's no room for a bypass and I can easily find time to change every 3k for a work car. I started doing the ext. service more for convenience in my busy truck but I am seeing the same benefits as the stationary equip at work from syn. and analysis. I figure I have the equivalent of over 16 million miles of automotive service with that stuff and nothing but ! Craig

 

[E7mack96]

reply to rblomquist

rblomquist



I change the oil at 10k, and send in a sample of the changed oil.



I change the filter at that time. If an analysis showed a reason, i'd change filter sooner, or change oil/filter sooner , based on the analysis.

 

[Joe G.]

Craig,



"you haven't tried analysis to understand it". What's to understand? Take an oil sample according to instructions, package it correctly, inclose a check, apply postage, mail it, and read results upon return. I don't think it takes a doctorate in chemistry to understand that.



My point is that for a non-commercial daily driver who tows a few times a year it doesn't make a lot of sense except for feel good.



I don't recall a report involving non-commercial use on these forums regarding a problem that would have been less of a problem if it had been detected earlier by oil analysis. There is a possible exception of a leaking head gasket, but I'm not sure if that was non-commercial or not. The examples of pending failures detected by oil analysis that I have seen here are for other applications than Cummins in Dodge pickups.



In fact, I can't recall any lower end failures in these engines other than plugged cooling nozzles, a KDP getting in the works, or a drain plug falling out. Other than competition trucks that is. The same sort of thing applies to tranmissons and differentials in non-commercial use. Transmissions are a problem, but most pending failures let you know without oil analysis. Slipping torque convertor lockup clutch, shifting problems, fifth gear falling out, etc, etc,...



If I were using my truck for commercial use I would use analysis so I could schedule my down time to minimize lost imcome and repair cost. For the way I use my truck I'm more likely to get killed by a big rig on US101 than have a problem where oil analysis would save me money.



It would be like me buying flood insurance when I live on a hill. There is a very slight possiblilty that my house could be flooded. If there was an earthquake strong enough to make my house slide down the hill into my winter creek, the flood insurance would come in handy. Probably won't happen.

 

[illflem]

Come on Joe, even old dogs a can learn new tricks



What I'm looking for in oil analysis is oil condition, wear metals are just extra. I did my no price analysis every 1k after 5k just to see how far my Delo could go, it was 9k before soot was getting too high, TBN and viscosity were still fine. Made me feel very comfortable to be using 5k changes and not worrying about going a coupe k over if I don't have time/place to change the oil.

Just the no worry factor can be priceless.

 

[Joe G.]

Bill,



It's not learning new tricks that is the problem here. I just get irked when told that I don't know what I'm talking about when I have actually thought this one over quite a bit. At one time I considered doing regular tests. Then I asked myself the question about what I would do if I got bad results or a series of bad tests. Most likely just worry. Then noting that many people seemed to be running 10K or so between oil changes (too far in my opinion) with no problems I decided to change every 5K (mostly highway driving) and not worry at all. 6K is the Dodge recommendation for my usage. SO that's what I do. My no worry factor is in pretty good shape.

 

[C Schomer]

Joe, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. You stated - if you did it and got bad reports, you'd probably just worry about it. If that's all you'd do and wouldn't find and fix the problems, then this DEFINATELY is not for you. Still does'nt mean you can't have problems changing every 5k with petro. Mine is non commercial and it works for me and has shown me at least one problem that was a simple fix before it got bad. At least I did something about it! Commercial use or not, I really don't know of any engine or gearbox that knows what it's being used for! Like I said, it's worth it to me just for the convenience factor. With due respect, several people here have made great points and testimonies about syn/analysis and I thought answered your questions pretty well but you don't seem to accept them. Craig

 

[rblomquist]

Boy, I didn't think this post would become such a runaway train Oo.



Everyone has their own reasons for doing or not doing things, what can be right for us is obviously not Joe's cup of tea. What I've learned and taken away is thread is that IF my analysis shows that I can get more life out of the oil and not needlessly change it out, than this is a more cost-effective/sensible approach in terms of money and time.



For myself, the HUGE bene out of this approach is going to be the additonal information garnered from the analysis. I'm an information junkie, the more of it I can get (especially if I get it as a bi-product of saving time & money ) the more comfortable, informed, and happy I am. Additionally, not being the richest family guy on the planet, if I can fix something before it goes catastrophic than it's prudent for me to do so.

 

[amsoilman]

I can give you two cases where Oil Analysis most likely saved the customers some BIG bucks!

One was a 97'CTD which only had 7,000 miles on the oil. He was using Synthetic 15W-40 oil along with a By-pass oil filtering system. At the 7,000 mile mark, he decided to do an oil analysis just to see what was going on. The oil analysis came back showing the oil had deteriorated to a 20 grade Viscosity (two grades lower than the original which was a 40 grade) and the oil had 5 percent Fuel IN the oil !

The report suggested to check the fuel injection system. He took the truck back to the dealer where the truck was purchased and ask them to do what was suggested by the Lab. The dealer just said "Change the oil!" He wanted them to do as was suggested, but they insisted that he just change the oil.



He then contacted Cummins on their "Hot line", where he talked to an individual who was familiar with oil analysis. This Cummins Tech said that he thought there was either an "internal" leak in the injection pump (P-7100) or there was an injector that was not closing. He was told to take the truck back to the dealer and insist they do these checks. He did this, and low and behold, the dealer found an injector that was not closing properly.



Now had this customer just changed oil every 3-4,000 miles, perhaps he would not get too many miles out of this engine before it simply wore out, as fuel is not a very good lubricant.



Now the other case went something like this. A customer had a 97' GMC Diesel, which he was using the synthetic oil (15W-40) as well as an oil by-pass filtration system. He was doing the oil analysis every 8,000 miles and had done so for some 65,000 miles before the problem showed up. The problem was a very high silicon count of 65 PPM. The lab contacted him by phone and recommended for him to check his air intake system. He did as they told him and low and behold, when he removed the flexible air tube between the air filter box and the intake plenum, he discovered a slit in the air tube about 1 inch long. This slit was located on the inside radius of the bend in the flexible air tube, and was not visible unless the air tube was removed and then straightened out.

Now had he just been changing oil and not doing oil analysis, how many miles could this engine been able to go without a major problem? Who knows, but in my mind these two cases exemplify the benefits of a good oil analysis program.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[C Schomer]

When I caught my broken down diff lube, it only had 10k miles on it - 2k from the change point. I didn't have any diff noise yet but may have a little later. Analysis was my only indicator.

 

[JPS]

oil sampling

It's kinda like any insurance program, most have it, hope we do not have to use it! jps

 

[rblomquist]

Finally got my analysis back; report says no corrective actions required.



One thing I'm wondering about though is they tested the viscosity at 100 C and it came back at 14. 24 cSt. If I'm reading the back of the lab's form right 40W oil should be between 12. 5 cSt and 16. 29 cSt at that temp.





My whole idea for doing the analysis was #1: Make sure nothing comes back showing a problem area and #2: find out if I can go longer on my service interval (only went 4k last interval). Lab says no problem areas but I need you guy's opinion on the service interval (based on that viscosity result).



Thanks in advance!

 

[amsoilman]

As far as the Viscosity, it is showing in the middle of the requirement for a 40 grade oil. That is a good number!



Now the best thing to do is to continue doing an analysis on a periodic basis, now that you have established a base line. By doing this, you will get a trend which will then tell you how well the oil is standing up, as well as the internals of the engine.



I always do mine at 10,000 mile intervals.



Wayne

amsoilman